{"id":2591,"date":"2002-07-02T21:23:45","date_gmt":"2002-07-02T21:23:45","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/staging.armedliberal.com\/?p=136"},"modified":"2002-07-02T21:23:45","modified_gmt":"2002-07-02T21:23:45","slug":"is-it-war-yet","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/marcdanziger.com\/?p=2591","title":{"rendered":"IS IT WAR YET?"},"content":{"rendered":"

Kevin Reybould, of Lean Left<\/a> comments (and blogs):<\/p>\n

[quoting me]”, I\u0092m firmly on this team, and I think that thinking folks of all stripes should be as well.”<\/i>
\nThe problem a lot of us have is that this statement is very often used (and I am not saying you do this) as an excuse to demonize the “other team” (Raymond’s notion that the West is somehow less violent than the Islamic world is a joke, and bad logic. It ignores every other factor that shapes a society and the decisions it makes in favor of the one factor that differentiates the given society from ours) and to paper over or ignore our side’s contribution to the problems.
\nMany of the things that people broadly criticize the Islamic world for are things that we help create. We are the largest supporter of Egypt, we are the largest customer of Saudi Arabia, we are the nation that overthrow the democratically elected government of Iran. Those actions have the consequence of suppressing democratic forces in the Arab world. In a very real sense, the West has chosen to back those who would make the Qu’ran a book of war.
\nThat is what is so infuriating about pieces like Raymond’s, and the whole notion that the Arab world is just inherently violent. Not only is it bigotry, it is exceedingly dangerous bigotry. By ignoring our own actions, and steps we can take to correct the consequences of those actions, we merely run in place. Killing terrorists is not enough – we must try and make a world where terrorists can gain no foothold. We cannot do that by hiding behind comforting illusions.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

I think I disagree. I say \u0093I think\u0094 because I\u0092m consciously withholding a decision on a core set of issues here. I\u0092m not 100% convinced that we are at war with the Islamic world; I am sure that a group within that world is trying to foment a war. But we\u0092re at a crucial point where we will either decide that there are elements in the Islamic world to make peace with\u0085because they themselves step forward\u0085or not.
\nThere are two places where I\u0092ll expand, though: Yes, the \u0093other team\u0094 is more violent than we are\u0085<\/u>in the sense that our violence is contained, managed as tightly as an encompassing legal system and bureaucracy can make it. We can turn it on and off like a switch. The violence in the Islamist (and possibly the Islamic) world is ingrained in the daily lives of people who, as a celebration of a wedding, try and fire a live mortar, and who routinely celebrate by firing guns into the air.
\nYes, we have often chosen our commercial interests over the \u0093will of the people\u0094, in places all over the globe. And ultimately what makes me a liberal is that I share the belief in humanity\u0092s ultimate perfectibility. But I don\u0092t think simply \u0093declaring democracy\u0094 and withdrawing is going to work.
\nI\u0092m just not certain that we\u0092re anywhere near there yet, and that simply, as Fly Over Country<\/a> so eloquently put it:<\/p>\n

Some people, and I mean liberal in the current defintion, think they can dream up the way it supposed to be, snap their fingers, and the whole world will be remade over in their image. Fishing allows me to not fall into that mindset. Fishing, like hunting, allows me to plug in on the ground floor of a market economy and begin to piece together the relationship between what I get from the grocery store and the forces it took to get it there. Running cattle offers the same sort of insight, only it is a lot more messy and the potential for getting hurt is exponentially bigger. But, that is for another time.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

When it\u0092s democracy time, countries develop democracy. It is not a plant that can simply be transplanted onto violent tribal roots.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Kevin Reybould, of Lean Left comments (and blogs): [quoting me]”, I\u0092m firmly on this team, and I think that thinking folks of all stripes should be as well.” The problem a lot of us have is that this statement is very often used (and I am not saying you do this) as an excuse to […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[1],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/marcdanziger.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2591"}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/marcdanziger.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/marcdanziger.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/marcdanziger.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/marcdanziger.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=2591"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"http:\/\/marcdanziger.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2591\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/marcdanziger.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=2591"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/marcdanziger.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=2591"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/marcdanziger.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=2591"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}