Avedon Carol has sent some traffic over, so I went to take a look.
Sigh. Its frustrating to me. I feel like some kind of linguistic hermaphrodite, because when I talk about things like patriotism (and in her case earlier, the Pledge issue), I feel like people who Id probably somewhat agree with on many things – look at me like Im speaking Aramaic.
Carol has a long, discursive post, where she starts with my comment about liberalism and patriotism, and drifts onward to a general comment about the Right wing folks (the Ann Coulters etc.) are crackpots, with what I take as the clear inference that I’m on Ann’s side.
Well, heres what Ive said about Ann Coulter
THE WOOSH OF CREDIBILITY FLYING OUT THE WINDOW and COULTER’S ROOMATE … IN HELL
Yeah, Im, a fan alright
She then defends a bitter joke about Kathryn Harris (the one where someone watched the coverage of the Ryder truck bring in the ballots in Fla and hoped OJ had murdered her) by explaining
This is more of a joke about the famous slo-mo car chase than anything else, but considering the nightmare that Harris had subjected America to at the time, the real outrage is that the woman isn’t in jail right now. Having committed significant crimes, she then ran for Congress and was elected by Republicans.
Right. That makes it OK, then
I just dont get it. And, obviously, she doesnt get me.
That doesnt matter much to either one of us, except
that her group is closer to the seats of liberal power than mine, and they keep getting their butts kicked (yeah, yeah, I know Gore won the popular vote, and this election was close
but the Constitution doesnt give the popular vote winner the Oval Office, and most Presidential parties lose seats mid-term).
Perhaps this snippet of dialog will help explain why:
From LiveJournal (via A Small Victory) in response to a post on Pearl Harbor
(note that the bold comments are from Chuck Simmons, the blog author)
remember what happened to a nation that attacked us?
yeah, ‘civilized’ america dropped two nuclear bombs and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings, in addition to causing untold environmental damage. Real noble of us. Many things make me proud to be an american; our ultimate response to pearl harbor is one that definitely does not…
The commenter goes on
There is a moral distinction between us and them (Germans and Japanese). They made war on us and any suffering they had was due solely to their actions. They made an immoral choice and it caught up with them.
Again, it’s not so cut-and-dried as you’d like to think. Judge, judge, judge. “It’s all their fault.” It’s so easy to say.
And on
Why aren’t you proud to be an American?
I AM proud to be an American, I’m just not proud of some of our history, and some of the present-day things our government is done. I’d have to be crazy not to be proud. Unfortunately, those things that I am not proud of are things that put me in jeopardy in other parts of the world. If I were to travel outside North America, I’d sure as hell try my best to pass as a Canadian. Not because I don’t like being American, but because I don’t want anyone killing me because of my government’s actions.
And finally, if America were power hungry, as you imply, demonstrate our empire. Who are we subjugating? Whose lands do we rape and pillage for our own benefit?
The world is our empire. Look at all the places where we have troops stationed (granted, some of those places want us, but others do not). We are the superpower–what responsibility comes with that is what we’ve given ourselves. The European Union is rather strong these days–what would happen if we take a little step back and put ourselves on EQUAL ground with those nations? Would the world fall apart? I think not. There are plenty of places in the world (SE Asia and Africa are good examples) who need plenty of help of the non-war variety. Food and medicine would be a good start. Where are we? Doing some, but not nearly enough to make a dent. What if we spend all the money we’re putting into this Iraqi “war” on HELPING instead of KILLING? Sure, it sucks to live in Iraq now, but at least they HAVE a fairly stable government. At least they HAVE money. People are starving to death everyday, people are dying from easily cureable diseases and we are spending billions cranking out weapons of destruction and getting ready to cause MORE death in the world? Not too honorable of us.
Get my point?? This is how mainstream America sees liberals
because the cutting edge of liberalism in America is dominated by voices like this.
We can blame it on the big bad media. We can blame it on the conservatives who set the agenda. We seem to be blaming it on everyone but ourselves.
When we do, maybe we can get some liberal things done in this country.
(edited for spelling)
(formatted for clarity)