In the wake of the GOP registration fraud arrest, a lot of Republicans are finger-waving at California Secretary of State Bowen and claiming that (as a Democrat) she’s being partisan in her investigation (remember, the local prosecutor has to decide to prosecute). Today, she challenged those claims.
Here’s what she said (h/t PolitickerCA):
Bowen, speaking at a “drive-thru registration” event on the last day to register to vote in the Nov. 4 election, said she’d investigate Mother Teresa if there was reason to think the late Nobel Peace Prize winner was engaged in voter fraud.
“If a complaint is brought against any party, any individual, my office will investigate,” Bowen said.
She also pointed out that in the case of Marc Anthony Jacoby, the decision to arrest and charge him with twice giving an address he didn’t live at on his own voter registration form was up to local law enforcement and the district attorney in Los Angeles County – a Republican.
“I would’ve had to have had a lot of corroboration from a lot of people with no partisan agenda,” said Bowen, a Democrat elected to her current office in 2006.
Disclosure: I know and trust Secretary Bowen.
At the same time this whole issue makes me itch a little. I’m working on a long post, and will be seeing if there’s an interesting open-source research project that we can all do together this November.
ARORN is being investigated in 2 dozen states as well as the FBI. But we have one Republican trying to “even the score” and that is what you decide to promote? So we have thousands of ACORN frauds and one by some so-called Republicans. Well, that makes is all even, eh??
I know that you have been following registration issues due to your relationship with Deborah but this is too convenient. Seriously, is this your attempt to say “See, they do it too. A pox on both their houses.” But I haven’t seen your commentary on ACORN written up here. Did I miss it?
Is Deb looking into Democratic vote stealing with such vigor? I can’t remember seeing any major press releases and press conferences outlining any issues with Dems. Welcome to California Politics where Dems are never wrong and it is always the fault of the Republicans, even though there are only a handful in the entire state government.
If you like the situation here in California with massive budget deficits and state control of more parts of your life, just get ready for Comrade Obama. Anybody have any good leads on property in Colorado or Nevada???
Also, will you be commenting on Obama’s flaunting of the election laws by accepting contributions from foreign nationals and multiple small contributions “with names like Qwerty Poiuy, Asdfgh Lkjh’;, and Zxcvb Mn09876 from the states of PO, ZX, and QW.”
Obama promised to accept matching funds but when he realized that his scam was going to get by with media assistance, he threw that promise overboard for the chance to steal the election.
Personally, I am expecting an FEC report on this to come out some time in the spring, once there is no chance for McCain to use it as a weapon. The Democratic Party is committing one of the biggest frauds in election history and you decide to focus on the one incident of Republican shenanigans. Is this what we have to look forward to in the next 4 years? Isn’t it exhausting covering for Obama sooo many times and on sooo many subjects??
Anyone doing this should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. However, when there is a plausible nationwide conspiracy in the offing, particularly one in which a presidential contender has longstanding ties, its pretty obvious where the spotlight should go.
I don’t know that ACORN has committed a conspiracy- but they’ve at best been systematically negligent. But there is compelling circumstantial evidence that it could be a conspiracy, it needs to be investigated as a national issue. This scandal sets my teeth on edge, it has the ring of the Big Lie- so breathtakingly brazen that nobody recognizes it for its scope.
Mike, McCain doesn’t only accept donations from foreign nationals, he even solicits them.
Generally speaking, the Obama campaign (and probably the McCain campaign, too), eventually refunds donations with bogus names or from foreign nationals. But that requires human intervention, and it takes a while.
Isn’t it amazing that the Democratic ghost-voter scheme is even able to manipulate the pre-election polls? You might consider the alternative, that the country rejects the Republican Party right now and is sending it to well-deserved defeat.
Mike A #1 and #2 —
This post is a continuation of an ongoing discussion of the integrity of the voting system. The previous one was “GOP Registration Fraud”:http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/gop_registration_fraud.php and the one before that, “Voting Fraud.”:http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/voting_fraud.php Find yet earlier commentary in the site’s archives.
If you check those two posts and their threads, you will not find a uniformity of opinion, pro-Obama or otherwise. And yes, ACORN’s transgressions (say many of us) or alleged transgressions (say others) have been discussed.
bq. Obama promised to accept matching funds
When, specifically, did he do this?
bq. The Democratic Party is committing one of the biggest frauds in election history and you decide to focus on the one incident of Republican shenanigans.
Sure, we’d hate for the evidence of a smoking gun to “come in the form of a mushroom cloud”, now wouldn’t we?
Republican Alarmism is dead as an electoral strategy…the sooner you realize that, the sooner we’ll get back to a reasonable opposition and away from the unhinged fear mongering that has turned people away from the party in droves.
AJL #4
bq. Isn’t it amazing that the Democratic ghost-voter scheme is even able to manipulate the pre-election polls?
Link?
bq. You might consider the alternative, that the country rejects the Republican Party right now and is sending it to well-deserved defeat.
If Mike A browses a couple of threads here, I suspect he’ll stumble across this theory once or twice.
Isnt it amazing that Andrew isnt concerned with voter fraud only it can be proven to affect the results of an election that _hasnt happened yet?_
AMac, what I meant is this: the current polls suggest that Obama is far ahead. Since Mike seems to be suggesting that Obama is going to perpetrate a massive fraud, one has to conclude either that (1) Mike is wrong, (2) Obama will commit fraud to win by 10 percent instead of 9 percent, or (3) this fraud is so amazing, it even manipulates the pre-election polls. I’d put my money on Door Number One.
_”the sooner we’ll get back to a reasonable opposition and away from the unhinged fear mongering that has turned people away from the party in droves.”_
I’m sorry, wading through this irony is taking up so much of my time. First Republicans are hate-mongers, now they are alarmists. Ah, its like the world started spinning 6 months ago when Obama got the nomination. Go out to the garage and dust off your ‘Bush has blood on his hands’ sign next to the ‘Hail to the Thief’ placard and remember what got us to this point of distrust.
Andrew, that makes NO SENSE. IF this is a conspiracy, one might assume it was hatched before Obama knew what the polls would look like in October. Wouldnt you think?
If i decide to cheat at cards by palming an ace but i get dealt a royal flush in another suit that doesnt mean i didnt cheat.
bq. Go out to the garage and dust off your ‘Bush has blood on his hands’ sign next to the ‘Hail to the Thief’ placard and remember what got us to this point of distrust.
Sure, right…criticism of Bush started it all, and excuses it all.
Alarmism is when the criticism is inflated or unfounded, Mark, like
bq. The Democratic Party is committing one of the biggest frauds in election history
When the criticism comes to pass as predicted it ceases to be alarmism (which is what I’m talking about, not “distrust”).
Which has, unfortunately, happened more often than not, as you might have noticed.
AJL #9 —
By my reading of #1 and #2, Mike A did not suggest that Obama is going to perpetrate a massive fraud. It’s likely that Mike A believes that ACORN, which is closely aligned with Obama, is structured so as to accomplish “Distributed Voter Fraud.”:http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS236US237&q=site%3Awww.soundpolitics.com+Fraud+Rossi+2004+&btnG=Search In fact, I believe so myself. Beyond the point raised by Mark Buehner in #9 (which I don’t subscribe to, but is plausible), “benefits to ACORN’s leadership” need not align perfectly with “benefits to Obama.”
As noted earlier “(comment #32)”:http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/gop_registration_fraud.php#c32 , I think that if an organization analogous to ACORN was working to benefit Republicans, you’d be highlighting its tawdry history and objecting to its practices. As would the aptly-named Talking Points Memo.
I hope many polls prove to be inaccurate, not out of a great love for McCain, but because I’d prefer elections to be decided by voters going into booths. I’m not the only one who tells fibs to nosy callers, I hope.
_”Sure, right…criticism of Bush started it all, and excuses it all.”_
Not exactly, but to quote Obama’s spiritual advisor, the chickens seem to have come home to roost.
After 8 years of maximum volume Bushitler and blood for oil talk, don’t expect much civil discourse in return.
The fact is the left has been accusing Republicans of stealing elections and instituting a fascist police state for a long time. I have to take those people at their word- is it really hard to believe people who are CERTAIN republicans have been stealing elections would fight fire with fire?
Voters have no idea who or what they are voting for or against. The press has made sure of that. This election has been one of the biggest frauds in history. The press has lied, covered and ignored any stories that conflict with the coronation of Comrade Obama.
Hard Lefties think this is just fine. Anything that helps them get to power is OK. The Left has pissed in the punchbowl of politics and turned it into a remake of DeathRace 2000. The ends justifies the means. You guys want the Republicans to just admit defeat and give in to the One. Well, I learned how to respond to electoral defeat from you guys. You can expect 4 years of hell. And not just from the Right but from the Middle who is going to quickly realize that they have been sold a bill of goods.
The Lefties had better get ready to cram their socialist agenda into the first year of the Reign of Good King Obama because 2010 is going to be ugly for them. Lincoln was right about fooling the People. You can get away with it for a while but it is all going to come home to roost when “Obama is tested in the first 6 months. Mark my words.” Biden may be stupid but he is not dumb. He knows what is coming. Obama is going to abandon Israel and he is going to need all the Obamabots to yell real loud so as to distract the public from the truth.
bq. After 8 years of maximum volume Bushitler and blood for oil talk, don’t expect much civil discourse in return.
Ridiculous. Regardless of the tone of the opposition over the last 8 years, the Republicans would be conducting nearly the same exact campaign strategy, because that’s what got Jr. elected twice (and his dad once, come to think of it).
Think about The Golden Rule, Mark, before replying again that it’s ok to act in a certain way because your opposition does.
That kind of thinking got us Abu Ghraib and Gitmo and the destruction of America’s high ethical and moral ground in world affairs.
Sorry, wrong link for “Distributed Vote Fraud” in #13.
Here is Jim Miller elaborating on the concept: “Some Kinds Of Vote Fraud Are More Equal Than Other Kinds,”:http://www.seanet.com/~jimxc/Politics/November2004_2.html#jrm2804 from 11/17/04. And an earlier column, “Facilitating Vote Fraud,”:http://www.seanet.com/~jimxc/Politics/October2004_4.html#jrm2750 from 10/31/04.
_”Think about The Golden Rule, Mark, before replying again that it’s ok to act in a certain way because your opposition does.”_
I never said it was ok, i said it was a fact. I don’t recall any Republicans charging voter fraud in either of Bush’s elections, so i’m not sure what you’re talking about as far as the last 8 years.
The reality is that both sides are at the barricades now. Republicans just dont trust the left anymore, and this ACORN stuff seems to justify that. When you’ve been called thieves, liars, and fascists for a while its hard to assume good faith.
Mike A #15 —
bq. This election has been one of the biggest frauds in history.
Well, no more guessing Mike A’s meanings from me. I think the “mainstream media” has done a woeful job of presenting issues to the voters, but what’s new about that? If the media was in the tank for my candidate, whoever that’d be, they’d still be in the tank. Low information voters would still be low information voters.
The Republicans deserve this loss, maybe they’ll find some ideas worth discussing in the wilderness. Meanwhile, “the economic bills that are about to come due”:http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/financial-crisis/ are so huge as to overmatch whichever slate wins.
After 8 years of maximum volume Bushitler and blood for oil talk, don’t expect much civil discourse in return.
That attitude is certainly not going to help; it just ensures that the left says the same thing the next time a conservative wins. That’s the start of an endless cycle of uncivil discourse until everyone exhausts themselves in hatred.
Our country deserves better of us.
I do not expect a reuniting. When I talk to my leftist friends (rarely these days), it is if they see every event through a glass that mysteriously changes everything to a negative image of what I see.
I see a dangerous world with enemies would would certainly kill us all if given the opportunity.
They see a world full of people we have mistreated who are driven to hate us, so we have to be nicer to them. (somehow)
They see the results of the “great Society” as not having done enough-
I see a whole segment of our population robbed of self reliance and pride, who have become wards of the state, helpless, awaiting the dole.
I see a criminal as someone to resist, with deadly force if necessary.
They are appalled at violence , even directed at an attacker.
I think talk is good to a point, and eventually may exhaust alternatives.
They think talk is always preferable to conflict- Regardless of moral imperative- the example was slavery.
They think bullies can be reasoned with, I think it takes a punch in the nose.
They see GWB as the great satan-who has destroyed our nations liberties, and our standing in the world.
I see a man who had perhaps the toughest circumstances to deal with of any modern President- A withering stock market bust in the first few months, then a devastating attack on 9/11. We are fighting nebulous foe prepared to use any method to destroy us, and yet we have been successful for 7 years in preventing another in the US. Am I a fan of GWB- No, but the man deserves a hell of a lot better than he gets.
They see the current Presidential race as between Democrats and Republicans- I see a race between a socialist and a center/right Democrat.
They see JFK as a hero of the Democratic Party, I see someone whom they would vilify as a right wing kook if he were here today with the same views.
“pay any price?”- not hardly. And the favored entitlement programs are a neat reversal of “ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country”.
The differences are so dramatic that I will not be surprised to see civil war II within 20 years. Complete with foreign involvement. (like a sea launched cruise missile decapitating DC.)
_”That attitude is certainly not going to help; it just ensures that the left says the same thing the next time a conservative wins. That’s the start of an endless cycle of uncivil discourse until everyone exhausts themselves in hatred.”_
The start?! We’re a long way past that im afraid. The left WILL say the same things the next time a conservative wins and nothing the right does or doesnt do is going to influence that.
Regardless, this isn’t what im _advocating_ im just describing the facts. Obama is in for a long ride with the right, just as Bush put up with from the left. If you think one side is going to unilaterally disarm, particularly the side that here-to-for has been the grown ups, i think you are simply mistaken. If that means the illusion of Obama as the shining messiah ends up getting soiled by conservatives with bees in the bonnet, thats just life in our great nation.
Personally I have no great desire to see Obama go down in flames as a president, but considering the authoritarian bent we’ve already seen out of his campaign and their willingness to shut down opposing view points, that could change very quickly. We’re in for quite a messy fight, but i don’t intend to forget who set the table and started throwing the food.
Mike A.,
With all due respect–I assume I’m on the same side as you as far as how we hope this election will turn out, but this kind of assertion just crazy.
I can’t imagine the circumstances under which I would vote for Obama, and this is completely independent of how much money he spends trying to convince me. Nay, rather, my likelihood of voting for him goes down the more he floods the airwaves with campaign materials, as I just find out more reasons to vote against him.
Now admittedly, as a hybrid conservative-libertarian type, I’m hardly O’s target market. But what of those who are? Are you really saying that if the financial situations of McCain and Obama were reversed, all those leaning-Obama voters would be leaning-McCain instead? That the content of what’s said makes no difference, that it’s only about who gets more repetitions of their message? If so (and what a depressing thought) I’d put the real blame on the clueless voters, more than on The One who takes them at their desire-to-be-fooled word.
AMac,
No kidding! However, the expectation that they probably will fills me with dread, not joy, because the D’s as a party are even worse. Really, voting Libertarian or Constitution Party or staying home just reminds of me the “race riots” of the 60’s–burning down our own neighborhood feels good for a moment, but once we’re done venting we’re even worse off than before.
No rule for thee that’s not a rule for me. If the GOP wants to talk about ACORN, then you can’t tolerate it when it’s (possibly?) in your favor. Burn this guy down, string him up, let the corpse rot at a crossroads somewhere. No tolerance for our own corruption. Don’t stand for “well, everyone does it, so it’s all right”.
Once that’s done, we can point and say “hey, we keep our house clean, what’s wrong with you?” But we can’t make every issue an “us right, you wrong” issue and then complain about everyone acting in a partisan fashion.
So damn this scum for having done what he did, and damn anyone who’d protect him.
Pro-US people are far more likely to take the position of “I would rather lose an election to save the Republic” than leftists are.
Leftists were never fans of democracy to begin with (since as long as people are allowed to vote, leftist ideas do not pass).
Let them steal this one election. Let them alienate moderate Democrats, libertarians, Jews, and Asians. It will result in their demise just as it did for their ideological bretheren who also became too extreme for the moderates who once supported them : Al-Qaeda in Iraq.
“Obama is in for a long ride with the right, just as Bush put up with from the left. ”
While the right generally respects the office too much to stoop to the ‘Chimpy Hilterburton’ level that the left exists in, this is balanced by the fact that the left is too thin-skinned, vulgar, and devoid of logic, to avoid the inevitable meltdowns that Obama will frequently suffer with even the mildest critique.
Leftists who overplay the race-card are themselves about to become a stereotype that is heavily mocked.
Avatar,
Well, the California Republican Party already is damned, isn’t it?
it just seems like this is a conspiracy theory and who ever is “losing” at the time ends up being in the one to spread the news. So right now because it’s McCain, all the sudden these liberal illuminati are on the side of those who are messing with the votes. But last election because Bush won is was the conservatives that were messing with the votes.
You can’t deny that Obama has received some support but to say he or his supports are up to some massive conspiracy seems to be a little to convenient.
GK: _Let them steal this one election. Let them alienate moderate Democrats, libertarians, Jews, and Asians. It will result in their demise just as it did for their ideological bretheren who also became too extreme for the moderates who once supported them : Al-Qaeda in Iraq._
Wow, that’s civil. Oh well. As far as I can tell at this point, we are in for at least a couple years of this kind of rhetoric. We’ll all be eager to see if it works for you as well as it did for the Democrats in defeating Bush.
From John Cole, we have now moved on to a state of play where McCain supporters are “holding angry political protests”:http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/bellantoni/2008/Oct/20/mccain-supporters-call-early-voters-ch/ in front of polling places while people are lined up for early voting. I’m feeling really positive about the direction this tone is taking.
[Substantive, but premature contribution deleted. Robert M, I remind you that you were temp-banned until the 23rd. –NM]
#29 Robert M:
You were temp-banned here until the end of the 22nd; permitting you to post again starting on the 23rd.
Unless you got clearance from AL or Joe Katzman to jump that date, it would appear that I’m going to have to delete your post and ban you from WoC for this ban violation.
I derive no satisfaction from that. Even moreso since your tone is completely within bounds on your return.
Either Joe or Marc may overrule this at their discretion.
[Edits]
_”From John Cole, we have now moved on to a state of play where McCain supporters are holding angry political protests in front of polling places while people are lined up for early voting.”_
You know what they call that on the left? Saturday.
Well, the California Republican Party already is damned, isn’t it?
Yes, although not because of this; it’s damned because it has managed to respond to being a minority party in such a way as to convince California’s independent voters that it can’t be trusted in government.
(Yes, we have a Republican governor. But his relations with the state Republican party are *awful*, and the support he has carries with it no coattails).
Anachronym,
Yeah, right. You are not even a million miles within holding the conduct of Republicans to the same standard as the conduct of leftists.
A car with a McCain bumper sticker WILL get keyed in the SF Bay Area. There is no place in American where a car with an Obama sticker will get keyed, even if parked outside of a GOP fundraiser or NRA convention.
I will repeat my last paragraph again (with minor edits) :
While the right generally respects the office too much to stoop to the ‘Chimpy Hilterburton’ level of discourse that the left wholly exists in, this is balanced by the fact that the left is too thin-skinned, devoid of logic, crude, and immature to avoid the inevitable meltdowns that Obama supporters will frequently suffer with even the mildest critique. Leftists who overplay the race-card are themselves about to become a stereotype that is heavily mocked.
bq. it just seems like this is a conspiracy theory and who ever is “losing” at the time ends up being in the one to spread the news. So right now because it’s McCain, all the sudden these liberal illuminati are on the side of those who are messing with the votes.
From your local “The World Did Not Begin With Obama’s Campaign” department:
The right has been concerned about ACORN since “at least 2004”:http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/clyne200410311142.asp when (if you’ll recall) their candidate not only won, but won by 3 million votes and managed the first national majority in quite some time. And concerns about voting fraud in general has been a concern for a few decades now, especially since “1960”:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1960#Controversies and the proverbial dead Chicago voters problem.
“You know what they call that on the left? Saturday.”
Actually, they call it Tuesday afternoon. This is because :
1) These leftists don’t have jobs, and thus are free on weekdays.
3) They wake up at Noon, and thus can only protest in the afternoon, not morning.
Go to Berkeley or Haight/Ashbury on a weekday afternoon for verificaton of this.
The GK Fantasy Express stumbles again.
Before you reply, without a shred of evidence, that Obama supporters did this for sympathy, be warned that if you do, I will simply make the same comment about McCain supporters attacked by Obama partisans. (I’m not a fool; there’s probably an example of that somewhere.)
“The GK Fantasy Express stumbles again.”
An odd example of projection from someone who has spectacularly lost every debate between us.
There is no evidence that the slashed tires had anything to do with McCain partisanship. Even if there was, that would be 1 instance of property crime against many instances of pro-Obama violent crime.
On the other hand, “a pro-Obama operative took a knife and carved a ‘B’ into the face of a pro-US girl.”:http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/23/mccain-supporter-maimed-for-her-politics-by-robber/
“Also, a pro-Obama operative punched a middle-aged female McCain supporter in the face.”:http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/obama-supporter-assaults-female-mccain-volunteer-in-new-york/
Of course, facts are to Lazarus what deodorant is to a leftist, so he will avoid these facts with great haste.
Lazarus, after all, believes that saying the word ‘macaca’ to someone who is harassing you is worse than being a KKK Kleagle or Dixiecrat segregationist, simply because the former was done by a Republican once, while the latter has been done by Democrats many times. So the pattern of Lazarus’ psychology continues.
Newflash- angry, resentful, violent McCain rallies cause Obama supporters to carve people’s faces in self-defense.
“angry, resentful, violent McCain rallies ”
I think you mean ‘bitter, clingy, pro-US, pro-troop McCain rallies’…..
I notice that all the instances of pro-Obama violence are a man attacking a woman (with a knife in one case, the victim being an older woman in another).
This, combined with the anti-Hillary and then anti-Palin rage, is revealing quite a pattern of behavior for male leftists.
Perhaps this also explains why the left defends radical Islam so actively. Radical Islam represents the culmination of left-wing misogyny.
The two ideologies are converging ever more tightly.
Video of McCain supporter assaulting Obama supporter. I’m not entirely sure what it proves; as I said, I don’t find it surprising, from either side.
A while ago, GK insisted that the majority of San Franciscans making over $200,000 vote Republican. After I suggested a loser-pays survey to determine whether this was true, he disappeared from the site for a week. I’ll repeat the offer, hoping it’s garlic to a vampire.
GK’s argumentation is now at the level, literally, of claiming liberals smell bad. I knew it was a mistake to connect elementary schools to the Internet and now I have my proof.
Notice to all concerned: Per AL, the site ban on Robert M has been rescinded.
It amazes me how the mainstream media will protect these liberal illuminati. Now the same state was accused of fraud, but you never seen this lefty on the news for crimes. This is priceless!
“GK’s argumentation is now at the level, literally, of claiming liberals smell bad. ”
It is true, but hardly among the the 5 most sordid traits of this group.
BTW, I have beaten you easily in all debates, and you know it (most soundly on the topic of Democratic racism). You have jumped the sea-cucumber many times over.
“After I suggested a loser-pays survey to determine whether this was true, he disappeared from the site for a week. ”
I am not interested in paying for a survey that can be easily rigged. Plus, leftists are known to dishonor contracts when they lose.
1) We fully established that at a nationwide level, the $200K+ bracket votes 63% GOP.
2) We established that the wealthy in NY vote GOP.
3) We established that the tech industry (high and low levels combined) voted 52% for Bush in 2004. 4) Your own data established that Pacific Heights has a higher percentage of GOP voters than other districts of SF (though not a majority). So we know for sure that even in SF, whigh income corelates to GOP voting. The only unknown is whether SF has a looser corelation than the rest of America.
While there isn’t yet a survey that proves that the $200K+ set in SF votes 51% or greater for the GOP, the other 4 points make it highly probable. To believe that SF is the only county in America where this is not the case, is too much of a stretch, particularly given the Pacific Heights trend that we already saw.
Of 3086 counties in America, Lazarus is hoping that ONE of them will have the $200K+ income group voting in a majority for Dems. The other 3085 (including Manhattan, Cook, Marin, Santa Clara and Los Angeles) are not in dispute.
Yet even for SF, the data we have so far favors my point that people earning $200K+ are majority GOP voters, no matter where their location.
“Video of McCain supporter assaulting Obama supporter. ”
You call that assault? As opposed to punching a middle-aged woman in the face or carving up a girl with an Obama scar? You have proven my point beautifully (as you often do).
Then again, being someone who thinks uttering ‘macaca’ to a harasser is worse than being a KKK Kleagle and Dixiecrat segregationist, your pattern of hypocrisy is consistent, if nothing else.
GK #40: Yes, those two cases of nutjobs, who need to be jailed, clearly show a pattern of primarily liberal male violence against women. Your well-reasoned comparison of liberals to radical Islamists is clearly on solid ground.
“Oh. Oops. Maybe not.”:http://www.wisn.com/politics/17754232/detail.html
I also appreciate how you dismiss harassment of *voters at polling places* because you heard about some hippies, somewhere in Berkeley, who have a habit of waving signs around. Of course, if it were those same hippies standing outside of polling places in conservative cities, screaming abuse at people who are trying to participate in a civil electoral process, you’d be shouting it from the mountaintops as proof of your impending left/right civil war fantasy coming true.
By the way, in an earlier thread you asked me why I described it as a fantasy. I’ve got no beef with fantasies. But most people pick fantasies that are personally appealing. This one seems pretty bleak, but I guess it must work for you, since it certainly isn’t justified on the merits.
In other news, I think this thread is dead.
You know, GK, Michelle Malkin is skeptical of that carving story. TMZ reports the police are skeptical, too. You might be careful before going too far out on the limb.
As far as the $200K, I don’t accept the rest of your localized data either. Your methodology is bogus. You had a chance to embarrass and impoverish me if you were right, and you passed on it. You also might chew on these figures from David Brooks.
I wonder if you should re-run your data on Silicon Valley donations, looking at this.
Robert M – you posted before your bench time was up, but posted a reasonable and interesting comment.
Based on your request, I asked Nort to unban you, but I’ll point out that he acted absolutely correctly, and that you need to be more reasoned in your comments if you want to stick around. You’ve shown that you can be, so please take this as encouragement – mixed with a warning.
A.L.
That B-scratch is far from clear cut (so to speak). I can’t tell what the heck actually happened there.
Did the picture I saw of the B being drawn so it would be correctly shaped when viewed in the mirror mean anything? Did Editorial flip the picture somehow? That used to happen due to process mistakes — but nowadays, who uses emulsion negatives?
I don’t know. Color me skeptical on that one for now.
Wow, blame the victim. Im sure she blacked her own eye and took a knife to her face just to screw with Obama. No word on whether she was wearing tight clothes.
Mark B might should get in line to pre-order Crystal Mangum’s new memoir.
Did Crystal Magnum carve a letter in her own face? We have physical evidence in this instance that supports this woman’s story. Is the new standard for rape and abuse victims liar until proven victim? Or just when its politically expedient?
If this was the other way around you would be screaming bloody murder.
Mark, let me try another explanation.
Ashley Todd:Tawana Brawley::Matt Drudge:Al Sharpton
Remember, Brawley had feces smeared all over her. That was physical evidence, but it didn’t support the “victim” any more than it supported the “hoax”. The “carved” B is one of the most suspicious aspects of the entire story. It’s shallow, doesn’t have torn edges, and doesn’t appear to have been done with a knife. (Try getting those round parts of the B with a knife—have you ever tried to carve a circle in a pumpkin?).
A great many McCain supporters seem to fear this is a hoax. Suggest you read them before arguing with me.
GK, Mark B: You lose. Todd admits attack was a hoax.
I’m not gloating; that’s one sick girl, and, yes, I’m familiar with similar hoaxes for “liberal” causes. I was familiar enough with them to join Michelle Malkin [!!] in smelling the BS nature of the lurid story of the little white girl sexually assaulted by the Big Barack-loving Negro.
Andrew, your expertize in face cutting is astonishing. I wont ask where you developed it.
I see a woman with a cut face and black eyes. I find it outrageous that you are suggesting that may be… whats your theory? Self induced? Outrageous.
I’m not convicting anyone in a court of law here. I see a person with fairly horrific injuries, i’m willing to take the leap that something bad happened to them. That doesnt meant the political aspect to this story is true- but why not just say that. Casting suspicious on a visibly injured person is beyond the pale.
Mark, you seem to have trouble understanding just what has happened.
The injuries, if there are any, were not inflicted by an anonymous big Negro mugger. Whether they were nothing but stage makeup, self-inflicted, inflicted by a confederate, or (just as another of many possibilities) she got a black eye in a domestic dispute and added the “B” and the rest of the story for effect, I can’t tell long distance. It doesn’t change the simple fact that her story is fake. You seem to believe that Malkin (plus a number of other right-wing bloggers!) and I are bad people for not taking the “victim’s” story at face value. What can I say? I believed the Duke “victim” for a couple days, until her story turned too weird to believe, and once burned twice shy?
I can tell that when police couldn’t find the “victim” on the ATM surveillance tape, they drew an obvious conclusion.
[ Consider muting ad hominems before hitting ‘post,’ please. — M.F. ]
Andrew, you don’t seem to understand how polite company works. Did you work for the Clintons by any chance?
[ Consider muting ad hominems before hitting ‘post,’ please. — M.F. ]
I see, Mark. In polite company, we give credence to accusations against a big Negro Criminal and Obama Supporter (hey, what’s the diff) rather than malign a cute little Republican white girl, even if her story looks extremely fishy (even to conservatives).
To Kill a Mockingbird, The Sequel. At least there is a much happier ending.
OK, that attack was a hoax. I condemn her.
However, Obama supporters conducted two more acts of violence/arson just today :
“Obama supporters shoot up McCain supporter’s home.”:http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/classy-democrats-shoot-up-mccain.html
“Senator Norm Coleman’s home vandalized by Leftists.”:http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/norm-colemans-home-vandalized-by.html
So, Obama supporters outdo McCain supporters in violent acts by about 20:1.
At least Republicans condemn such actions by McCain supporters. Lazarus condemns nothing that Democrats do, including being a KKK leader, a Dixiecrat segregationist, owning slaves, etc.
_”I see, Mark. In polite company, we give credence”_
Yeah, i give credence to victims unless proven otherwise. Crazy as it sounds i dont assume alleged victims are lieing. Do you generally treat assault or rape victims as though there is a 50/50 chance they are lieing?
The lesson of the Duke case isnt that you shouldnt beleive and show sympathy to rape victims until conclusive evidence in a court of law convicts someone beyond a reasonable doubt.
Pro-Obama car vandalized; teens arrested. So GK has to find 20 more examples, just for today. Or not. I’m willing to concede that there are Obama supporters who fly off the handle, but the 20:1 ratio seems to be (like many of GK’s statistics) of random origin.
Geez, it seems like some people on both sides are quite diwsaappointed that mobs of Obama and McCain supporters are not roaming the streets slicing up their opponents. You know, like the Sharks and the Jets, set to music.
I don’t think it is necessarily a good policy or a very intelligent position to tar either side with the actions of deranged characters on either side.
TOC:
Heh. I was thinking the same thing. Are we praying for sniper attacks, or what?
GK:
Condemn might be a little strong – there’s little point in condemning someone with Munchhausen’s Syndrome or some other attention-getting personality disorder. I would wait for the results of the court-ordered psych evaluation …
Well, I’d have to say, AMac, it was a nice try on your part to contribute to the false narrative in the hopes of hurting Obama’s campaign to the supposed benefit of McCain’s.
But in the face of the Todd Hoax, I’d have to agree with “John Moody, Exec. VP of Fox News:”:http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/23/jmoody_1023/
bq. “If the incident turns out to be a hoax, Senator McCain’s quest for the presidency is over, forever linked to race baiting.”
Why? Because of the way McCain campaign people reacted to the situation:
bq. McCain Pennsylvania communications director Peter Feldman pushed reporters on a highly incendiary version of Todd’s hoax — providing reporters with quotes from the fictitious attacker and telling them the the “B” scratched on Todd’s face stood for “Barack.” As the Washington Post’s Eugene Robinson aptly put it, Feldman’s actions showed “not just a willingness to believe it but an eagerness to incite a … racial backlash against the Obama campaign.”
If this is the type of people that are pushing for a McCain win, I’d hate to think what they could be capable of if given the power of the presidency to support their hateful bigoted and slimy efforts to grab power at all costs. To turn Americans against one another and spread their hate and anger.
I recall sometime back Armed Liberal saying that one thing he didn’t like about Democrats was their behavior, and he provided a link to some situation, I recall, where some people were being verbally mean and derisive to McCain supporters.
In the face of this and other documented evidence of the sick racist behavior of McCain supporters in public, I’m beginning to wonder what type of person is bothered more by a few intemperate upper East Siders than the legions of ignorant bigots who constitute the Republican base?
Vista,
For the record, they were upper Westsiders. Upper Eastsiders tend to be a bit more well-healed and genteel than those of us on west side of the park and are a lot less likely to engage in the kind of jeering we’re so fond of over here.
You are in danger of becoming a mirror version of GK. You really shouldn’t judge the millions of McCain supporters by the actions of a few hundred idiots, anymore than you should judge the millions of us Obama supporters by the actions of a few hundred idiots. The very reason the Ayers angle is a bunch of crp is precisely because these nuts are choosing to focus on one person and ignoring all the hundreds of other people with whom Obama has worked just as closely but whose beliefs and life stories would do Obama credit by association.
I see I posted my comment in the wrong thread, sorry.
mark, mark, mark, mark.
A “mirror image” of GK? That really is an insult.
Perhaps I might let my emotions bleed into my commentary now and again, and this kind of behavior does make me very angry and upset, no doubt. I did not say nor imply that they represent the majority of McCain supporters, you’ll notice.
However, if you’ve kept up with the latest on the story, you’ll see that there are reasons to suspect McCain campaign people, even at pretty high levels, with being involved in trying to use the situation for political gain. If you don’t find this despicable either, then perhaps your attitude partially explains why this kind of tactic is still considered potentially useful by some. I am both amazed and saddened, really, that it was even attempted. Anyway, I won’t stand for it at all…it’s an absolute disqualifier for serving in public office in my book. We’ve had quite enough of this type of behavior, wouldn’t you say?
But no worries, mate: if the occasional slap at a fellow Liberal helps to seal your cred on this site, I’m happy to play along and take one for the team…
Vista,
_I did not say nor imply that they represent the majority of McCain supporters, you’ll notice._
I was reacting specifically to this by you:
_In the face of this and other documented evidence of the sick racist behavior of McCain supporters in public, I’m beginning to wonder what type of person is bothered more by a few intemperate upper East Siders than the legions of ignorant bigots who constitute the Republican base?_
Okay, so maybe “legions” does not mean “majority.”
I’m sorry for the insult. Perhaps I went too far with the GK reference. However, I’m not looking for any credibility or to be fair to both sides. I just believe that the liberal point-of-view is better argued on its merits, not by attacking the character of individuals who think more conservatively.
Look, I do see the McCain campaign pulling some g-d awful, desperate, pathetic, misleading stuff. But they are losing and its starting to look as if they may lose badly. They are doing what they are doing because they are human, not because they are republicans. Democrats are just as capable of hitting below the belt when they are on the ropes. I am with our side, not because I think we are better people, but because our ideas have more merit.
bq. I just believe that the liberal point-of-view is better argued on its merits, not by attacking the character of individuals who think more conservatively.
Absolutely, me too. All points of view are better argued on merits…I get your point.
I’ll point out the obvious, though: the people whose character I was attacking are not simply those that “think more conservatively”. I very much respect a conservative point of view, and in fact on some issues (personal finance, eg) I am in agreement. But it is the association of a bigoted attitude with Republicans, at least in this recent era, that is of concern.
And btw, I lived in NYC for 8 years until 2000, some of that time on the upper east side, and I had a few friends on the upper west. I agree that I probably should have said upper west instead of east when making my point above, but I guess I didn’t give it much thought or consider that it would matter to anyone…but point well taken!
Anyway, if I could find the link I was referring to from Armed Liberal, we might clear that up (did you catch that thread?). Because that is another sub-point I was making, in response to his admitted distaste for Democrats’ behavior.
And getting back to my point, mark, it looks like even Hugh Hewitt was on the air all day telling his listeners the most incendiary version of Todd’s lie.
“Link.”:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IszjevYoS6A&eurl=http://www.americablog.com/
You said:
bq. They are doing what they are doing because they are human, not because they are republicans.
It’s not that I disagre with you here, mark, it’s just that I am very concerned about the specific type of human that acts like this. Either “side”.
Vista,
I don’t remember and can’t seem to find the appropriate thread, but no question it was my neighborhood, the upper west side, through which the McCain _provacateurs_ were marching, successfully generating the exact responses they wanted to film. These brave patriots, as they referred to themselves, risked life and limb by enduring all manner of verbal taunts and demonstrated beyond any doubt that anyone who considers voting for Obama must be a nazi..or a terrorist…or a socialist….I forget which… but it certainly proved that Obama’s policies were bad for the country.
I seriously doubt she would investigate. If there is any question of fraud, it should be investigated. This is a serious issue, and the socialist illuminati were the ones investigating years ago, but now they don’t want to. Sounds fishy to me.
[OT, crossposted; deleted. This will be your only warning: Please review the Winds of Change “comment policy”:http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/003367.php and abide by it, or face banning. We welcome controversy, but not trolling. –NM]