OK, the Guardian, in the UK, has a story up that distributes voter names and addresses for a county in Ohio. The explicit intent is:
…to enable people from Basildon to Botswana to campaign in the presidential race. And with a little help from the folks in Clark County, Ohio, you might help decide who takes up residence in the White House next month.
The system then allows you to register with an email address, and emails you an undeclared voter’s name and physical address. I did it, and got a voter in Springfield, Ohio.
Something in this fails the ‘smell test’ for me. On the other hand, it’s not like we haven’t spent a few CIA dollars to effect elections elsewhere ourselves.So, in that spirit of nose-holding neutrality, I’ll make it possible for our 5 – 6,000 readers per day to participate by getting their own voter and writing to them themselves.
There are probably enough undeclared voters that simply draining the pool won’t have an impact (i.e. simply having the system send you addresses so they won’t be available to anyone else). So go ahead and write your voter a letter.
I’m getting closer to making up my mind, and when I do – I will. (Note that I still think Bush will easily win, so my decision – or lack of it – isn’t exactly of earthshaking portent)
“Note that I still think Bush will easily win…”
Is that why he’s apparently “giving up”:http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/241651p-207221c.html in PA?
Perhaps Bush also thinks he’s got the race sewn up already.
Or perhaps he just has confidence that his “keep in the vote”:http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/13/15534/960 strategy will work?
Small English point: sending CIA dollars to “effect” elections means we used CIA dollars to ‘create’ them. Which is very true in Afghanistan, Iraq, and I hope they’re working in Iran and other places too.
What the Guardian is doing starts to border on nuisance and harassment, I think. But I’m surprised you missed the most consequential paragraph of their story:
bq. “American law forbids foreigners from giving money to affect the outcome of a federal election – except that, on closer inspection, it doesn’t. You’re banned from donating to the campaigns themselves, or to many of the independent campaigning groups that fight explicitly on behalf of one candidate. So you need to identify officially non-partisan groups whose activities, none the less, have the practical effect of helping one candidate over the other.”
In other words, the 527s have become the backdoor for foreign financing in American election campaigns. I’d work very hard to close that door, if I were you.
The link that VT points to is just enraging. If accurate (and we are talking about 5 different states, not to mention the throwing away of democratic register forms) this is absolutely criminal, and leads directly to the RNC.
I can provide a whole host of more links on this, so before anyone writes a quick dismissive comment, look at this activity.
That Guardian stuff enrages me. It’s just offensive. Period. These people have the right to their privacy. Just handing out their information is repulsive.
VT and JC if you look at the information for “America Votes” the group is apparently a left-wing one. Besides where’s all your rage about the thousands who double voted in Florida and NY in 2000?
Here is a bit of Perl script that will take 10000
voters and e-mail it to any address.
——————-
use LWP::UserAgent;
$ua = LWP::UserAgent->new;
$ua->agent(“do-not-interfere/1.0”);
my $email = ‘.clark.county@guardian.co.uk’;
for($x=0;$xnew(
POST => ‘http://guardian.assets.digivault.co.uk/clark_county/’
);
$req->content_type(‘application/x-www-form-urlencoded’);
$req->content(’email=guardian’ . $x . $email);
my $res = $ua->request($req);
if ($res->is_success) {
print $x . “\n”;
} else {
print “Bad luck this time\n”;
}
}
Here is a bit of Perl script that will take 10000
voters and e-mail it to any address.
(apologies for the double post, MT deleted a <)
——————-
use LWP::UserAgent;
$ua = LWP::UserAgent->new;
$ua->agent(“do-not-interfere/1.0”);
my $email = ‘.clark.county@guardian.co.uk’;
for($x=0;$x<10000;$x++)
{
my $req = HTTP::Request->new(
POST => ‘http://guardian.assets.digivault.co.uk/clark_county/’
);
$req->content_type(‘application/x-www-form-urlencoded’);
$req->content(’email=guardian’ . $x . $email);
my $res = $ua->request($req);
if ($res->is_success) {
print $x . “\n”;
} else {
print “Bad luck this time\n”;
}
}
Lindenen,
What??
You are just flat “wrong.”:http://www.mailtribune.com/archive/2004/0921/local/stories/02local.htm
As it looks now, this Sproul guy has setup an organization that LOOKS LIKE America Votes.
I will assume you were simply confused by the subterfuge, like others, and weren’t purposely muddying the waters yourself.
“The shredding of Democratic registrations”:http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_10_10.php#003666 is NOT something any person should condone. Period.
Or the shredding of Republican registration forms, of course. This would be a bipartisan concern.
JC, True.
Ditto the gunshots fired into Republican campaign HQs, invasions and destruction of property by AFL-CIO goons, theft of computers from campaign HQs, persistent reports of voter registration fraud, persistent shredding of lawn signs, et. al.
My question, and it’s a serious one because I don’t have an answer, is what sorts of things might be done to minimize this stuff. My experience with inter-party and even intra-party politics in Canada doesn not make me an optimist… but there’s another part of me that says we’ve got to try.
Meanwhile, how do we rustle up the home addresses of every Guardian staffer, and distribute them to a whole bunch of Americans so they could discuss the Guardian’s position re: the War on Terror?
Turnabout is fair play, and all.
“My question, and it’s a serious one because I don’t have an answer, is what sorts of things might be done to minimize this stuff. “
Well that’s an easy one, Joe.
Throw the Republican goons out of Washington, starting at the top of the ticket.
(You did say minimize.)
I am not condoning any dishonest behavior. I just find it interesting how selective outrage can be. As for the title of the link, I don’t understand how anyone could call “America Votes” “non-partisan”. If you want to register to vote you should be required to do it at dmv (with your SScard, birth certificate, etc) or online, not outside a mall when some guy hands you a form. Anyone could tell you that’s not secure. Why do we allow this?
Regarding these elections though, I’ve been reading so much about people registering to vote 35 times, registering as Freddy Krueger, etc that I’m at a point where I don’t understand how the country has managed to function for so long with an election system this bloody incompetent and corrupt. The whole system needs a total overhaul and I know that when I walk into that booth, assuming I can get in, some partisan hack will probably throw my damn vote away. I don’t even trust the damn machine, punch card or touchscreen.
Re: VT’s comment about “Republican goons”, Yeah, because it’s the Republicans who are shooting into and burglarizing GOP headquarters across the nation. Let’s face it. They’re both gonna cheat but at the same time, I don’t see repeated instances of right wing violence.
Why hasn’t the MSM picked up on the Sproul thing and run with it? Also Oregon and West Va must have Democrat AGs. Why aren’t they coming down on this like a ton of bricks?
Mind your own business, Brits.
Go influence the elections in France. They need a lot more help than we do. 🙂
You know, I suspect lefty British intellectuals will have about the same effect on middle-American voters as the Dean “perfect storm”…
Ahem.
lindenen;
I fail to see how the alleged (no link provided by you or JK) vandalism of a Republican office has anything at all to do with what appears to be a swell of Republican-led voter suppression.
And weakening your diversionary argument even further is the fact that Kerry offices have been “vandalized”:http://www.acadiananow.com/news/html/2B5BBF65-30EC-409C-9F0B-1AF1F921B32C.shtml many times as well.
It is a lot easier to “profile” Democrats than Republicans, so to suggest the same type of thing happens on both sides is a joke. And I don’t see anyone here providing any evidence to support this claim, while the web is “exploding”:http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/13/154857/79 with news of Republican efforts to suppress votes.
To fail to denounce these activities as anything but un-American and illegal is tantamount to supporting them.
Selective outrage? Only if you consider it to be “selective” to view our right to vote as one of our most fundamental, but fragile, rights.
The Big Question is, why are the British invited to influence our election? I would be mightily annoyed if I got a message from an outsider encouraging me to vote – for either candidate.
VT –
Please join the rest of us down here in the land of the non-self-righteous. First, drop the ‘alleged’; there are plenty of reports of goonish behavior on both sides. Second, wow – you’re appalled at the idea that voter supression happens. Ever done electioneering with a labor union? I have. This kind of crap a) has been around a long time; b) is easier to do when the partisans are as passionate as – for example you are – and are convinced that Armageddon will follow electoral loss; c) are increasingly self-correcting as they don’t get swept under the rug by a centralized, partisan media.
A.L.
VT, once again you provide a sterling example of hateful malignity on the Left. The thought that intimidation, scams and other gambits might actually be a broader problem rather than proof of Republican eeevil could never cross your mind. And shots fired into Republican HQs is not of the slightest concern to you. Amazing.
Messing with voter registration is serious stuff, and violent intimidation is really serious stuff, and people who deny, spin or make excuses for either one are [a] no friends of democracy; and [b] morally damaged.
I WILL get around to my Florida Democratic Primaries of 1950 story, and the famous case of Sen. Claude Pepper. If you want to see hijinks, it doesn’t get much better than this. The leaflets circulated in the Florida back-country describing Pepper as a notorious Washington _extrovert,_ and his sister (I believe) as an avowed _thespian,_ are classics… and that was just for openers.
Finally, back to the Guardian. This is going to backfire, hugely, and “you can already see reactions on their blog”:http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/archives/us_elections/2004/10/mobilise_mobilise_mobilise.html – as well as some unbelievably insufferable comments that show exactly why. Some of ’em would drive a lifelong Democrat to pull the lever for W all by themselves.
If the Kerry team is smart, they’ll call The Guardian and ask them to stop. If the Bush Campaign is smart, they’ll send bogus letters to the Guardian from people trapped in the hell that is W’s Amerika, thanking the paper and urging it to give this effort everything it has.
VT, if your politcal party isn’t even competent enough to rig domestic elections, how can we trust them to handle foreign policy effectively? 🙂
Joe, AL;
We’re not talking about 1950 here fella’s, we’re talking about 2004. If you are trying to justify current Republican manipulation based on some perceived historical record of bipartisan voter suppression (which I am not disagreeing with), you are really testing the limits of your readers intelligence. Please.
“Messing with voter registration is serious stuff, and violent intimidation is really serious stuff, and people who deny, spin or make excuses for either one are [a] no friends of democracy; and [b] morally damaged.”
This is all that needed to be said on the subject, AFAIC, and I agree completely.
But point me toward evidence that there is bipartisan voter suppression in this election or I will have to suggest you discard your “historical moral relevancy” theory.
Or will we hear another classic AL argument (“The Gaming of the System”) that evidence is not necessary because the belief that both sides engage in this activity means that Dems must be doing it now also but under the media radar???
Joe:
“VT, once again you provide a sterling example of hateful malignity on the Left. “
I really don’t think you should keep hurling accusations like this at me. Instead of marginalizing my arguments, you only succeed in insulting a very large fraction of the American public.
AL;
“b) is easier to do when the partisans are as passionate as – for example you are – and are convinced that Armageddon will follow electoral loss;”
I hope you are not trying to suggest that I would participate in illegal or undemocratic activity to elect Kerry?
Your choice of wording is interesting. “Armageddon” is a term used by Jerry Falwell to describe the “struggle in Isreal”:http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/03/60minutes/main524268.shtml and the current “war on terror”.
Of course you know the Reverend is a “big-time Bush supporter.”:http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/8/31/83409.shtml
Thank you for helping to strengthen my argument.
Thank you to Armed Liberal and Joe for everything they said.
here’s something interesting fresh from Drudge…DNC ELECTION MANUAL: CHARGE VOTER INTIMIDATION, EVEN IF NONE EXISTS
The AG of Oregon is getting on the shredding case. There’s a clear chain from the RNC to Nathan Sproul to the shredders. Rather than acknowledge this, or be the least bit ashamed, the great conservative moralists, newly situational ethicists of the most naive type, fresh from defending Abu Ghraib can do nothing better than write about shots fired into Republican headquarters. Find the paper trail linking the DNC to whoever fired the shots, and then I’ll pay some attention. Oh, and which swing state ran a felon purge program they knew would strike off Democratic-leaning blacks (either correctly, or by mistake) but not Republican-leaning Hispanics. Was that a Democratic or a Republican attempted fraud? Oh yes, South Dakota—after two consecutive elections of claiming fraud without coming up with any example, the Republicans are caught notarizing forms illegally. And the AG of SD investigating is, I believe, a Republican—but evidently honorable.
Obviously voter fraud has been practiced by both parties since forever. This election, it seems to be practiced much more by Republicans.
Say, I almost forgot.
Which side gave us the “Brooks Brothers riot” in 2000. Organized flights of Congressional aides from Washington for a spontaneous demonstration of Floridians.
Yeah, I know. Your election violence is a fully justified healthy reaction to our nefarious scheme to count votes in an open room.
If Al Gore had let a few of his beefier supporters in for a counter-riot, he might well be president. The fact he didn’t is one of the best arguments I know for the claim he didn’t deserve to be, and perhaps even wouldn’t have done a good job.
The nerve of these people. It’s bad enough when Hillary Clinton and Alan Keyes go a-carpet bagging, but to have an international entity get involved just chaps my behind.
Tim McNabb
fivehundredwords.com
Rant on, AJL, rant on.
This election, there is some SERIOUS stuff going down on the “rethuglican” side. The equivalence to democrats isn’t there.
NOTE: Republicans are a much much larger group than rethuglicans. Think of rethuglicans as a small circle within a vastly larger circle of republicans.
But it does look as if, in AJL’s words, “There’s a clear chain from the RNC to Nathan Sproul to the shredders”, means that rethuglicans run all the way into the RNC, in a few cases.