Jinderella commented below that Wizbang’s Weblog Awards had become a playground for script kiddies – which is apparently true, using a design laid out on Wampum’s site – [Update – see below] that’s Wampum who hosts the Koufax Awards – and code actually published on Kos’ site.
This is interesting beyond the “Liberals cheat” cry that’s going up at LGF and elsewhere (yes they do, and so do conservatives – humans cheat and both, last time I checked, were human).It’s interesting because it’s a nice example of the role trust – as opposed to regulation – plays in real communities (think Weber).
It’s particularly critical in nonauthoritarian communities; because we rely on others, the tacit bonds of trust are almost always very strong. The interesting thing about the 405 Freeway isn’t the number of accidents that do happen, but the number that don’t. As trust declines, so does responsibility. If I don’t assume that I can trust others to be responsible, why should I be?
What’s particularly grating about this instance is the open contempt for trust and reputation shown by the folks at “Screw Them” Kos’. That’s gonna be a problem for them, because as you try and play in the world, you’ll find that trust, reciprocity, and reputation matter.
As to the contest, I’ll suggest that Kevin ought to pull it down, publicize why it’s being pulled down, and start it again with some mechanism that allows one vote per IP, period. Whether he allows Kos to stay in the contest is up to him; but I’ll point out that the reputation of the Koufax Awards has been damaged by this more than Kevin’s.
Update: I was pointed over to this post at Wampum’s as somehow explaining that he didn’t have responsibility for the script kiddies.
I went over and looked, and left this comment:
You know, I’ve also been in the tech biz for more than a few years and recall the early standards of behavior – back when admins would email each other privately about vulnerabilities rather than broadcasting them wholesale.
One of my commenters linked to this post as exculpatory…sheesh.
A.L.
The ideal solution is simpler. Remove Daily Kos from the 2004 awards altogether, hand down an extended ban, implement measures to limit votes per IP (despite the negative effects on AOL members; it can’t be helped), and continue as before.
DailyKos published award hacking tools on its site, a hostile act with clear intent to cheat. Then people cheated on its behalf. That should get it thrown out of the awards for several years – and as the awards rise in prestige, the penalty will continue to compound and deterrence will strengthen.
As it is, I think that by refusing to create real consequences for cheating, Kevin has just made his awards a clear target.
Shame on the cheaters at dKos; there seems to be “some confusion”:http://wampum.wabanaki.net/archives/001476.html about Wampum’s role in all of this, however. Kos the person doesn’t manage the site on weekends, it should be noted, and there are new guest posters at the moment.
I reject the typical leftist fake fraud equlity argument.
When the dead vote in Chicago they are not dead republicans.
Are people people ? Sure! but Republicans dont have the leftist moonbat creado that tells them cheating is “good” because its “for the common good”
To even hint at any sameness is dishonest and you know it.
The left even shrug off mass murder of 100 Million people in the name of utopia
“To the communists, the cause of a communist utopia justified all the deaths. The irony of this is that communism, in practice, even after decades of total control, did not improve the lot of the average person, but made their living conditions worse than before the revolutions.
It is not by chance that the greatest famines have occurred within communist states, about 5 Million dead during 1921-23 and 7 Million during 1932-3, and 27-40 Million dead 1959-61. ”
In total, at least 55 Million people died in various communist famines and associated diseases, a little over 10 Million of them from intentional famine. This is as though the total population of Turkey, Iran, or Thailand had been completely wiped out.
And that something like 35 Million people fled communist countries as refugees, as though Argentina or Columbia had been totally mptied of all their people, was an unparalleled vote against the utopian pretensions of Marxism-Leninism.
But communists could not be wrong. After all, their knowledge was scientific, based on historical materialism, an understanding of the dialectical process in nature and human society, and a materialist (and thus realistic) view
of nature. Marx has shown empirically where society has been and why, and he and his interpreters have proved that it was destined for a communist end. No one could prevent this, but only stand in the way and delay it at the cost of more human misery.
Those who disagreed with this world view and even with some of the proper interpretations of Marx and Lenin were, without a scintilla of doubt, wrong. After all, did not Marx or Lenin or Stalin or Mao say that?
In other words, communism is like a fanatical religion. It has its revealed text and chief interpreters. It has its priests and their ritualistic prose with all the answers. It has a heaven and indicates the proper behavior to reach it. It had its appeal to faith. And it has its crusade against nonbelievers.” -Communism is Mass Murder
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I also saw a familiar look in the faces of some of them. It was a look of realization that perhaps they have not been told the entire truth by adults they trusted. There was a glimpse of understanding that their favorite professor, or the president of the university, and even their own judgment about politics, needed to be questioned and challenged.
One question I was asked more than once was why in the world would the Republicans of all people on campus ask me (classical liberal, Democrat, feminist) to come speak. Many of the liberal students were truly perplexed. And that was their first lesson. I had the pleasure of explaining that the foundational commitment to freedom of expression and new ideas rests at the heart of the colleagues they had been condemning all along. That conservatives and conservative politics might actually be beneficial for women, blacks, and gays in this country.
Make no mistake, this is no longer about differences of political opinion. This is indeed about life and death, totalitarianism versus freedom, and intellectual freedom versus the imprisonment of the mind. It has become a fight for the hearts and souls of the generations to come. It is a fight classical liberals and conservatives dare not lose. — Tammy Bruce, My Brush with the Campus Thought Police.
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Did any democrat offices get bullet holes in them like republican offices did ? do you suggest that the Liberal MSM would not use it to demonize us if it happened ? .. double standard remember ?
I Reject that there is any equivelancy here, when you do so it lets “them” off easy and it slanders “us”
Values, principles, standards, hint hint.
We have them .. they dont … its that simple
Joe: “Remove Daily Kos from the 2004 awards altogether.”
Unless they delete the comment, and denounce it in a post? Denouncing it would seem to be necessary, since the comments are almost unanimous in favor of hacking.
But then, Kos has long been encouraging everybody to abuse online polls (for reasons too depressingly pathetic to go into) so I doubt that he’ll do anything about it.
I thought what Charles of LGF said was perfect. First he cheerfully suggested his fans vote for him, following the rules: “Vote daily. Vote Lizard.” Then when he heard of the cheating, he condemned it without any reservation, told the Lizardoid hordes not to retaliate and add to the problem, and said that Wizbang was on it, which he is. Nothing more than that, because nothing more that that is needed.
It’s Wizbang’s poll. He thought of it, he puts in the considerable work for it – free, out of the goodness of his heart. I trust him to run it fairly and in a good spirit. I’m quite happy for his to be the only opinion on how cheating should be dealt with.
Don’t vex people who provide valuable free services and content. (I’m not saying people here are. Just underlining what I think is the correct principle.)
David,
Wizbang should have the only _decision_ about the poll; asking for him to have the only _opinion_ is over the top and counterproductive if he wants to be as effective as possible.
Do you see the difference?
I love your site. It´s really a pleasure to read through all this interesting stuff and it home.
Joe,
Yes I see the difference, and you are correct.
Hi, Jennifer Lou! Enjoy Winds of Change. 🙂
It’s gotten my votes for berst group blog, mainly for the outstanding spirit of courtesy and fair-mindedness that prevails here. In a bad discussion space nobody willingly resiles from anything, because it always invites a victory dance and everything is made personal. Of course that way nobody learns anything (or if they do they don’t admit to it). Here there is abundant access to good information and thoughtful commentary – and the atmosphere is conducive to learning from it.
The lengths to which people will go to game a minor popularity contest astonish me. Surely they could come up with a more useful object for all that lefty-angst; sending a couple of bucks to MoveOn or something?
For the record, AL, what I said was “there seems to be some confusion about Wampum’s role in all of this.” I didn’t say: “this post is exculpatory.”
Thanks.
A.L.
Unfortunately, we’re wired for cheating, but fortunately, some can detect it. See razib’s post “here”:http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/002872.html.
Kevin’s design sort of enabled cheating, with allowing daily votes. Oversampling doesn’t really “smooth spikes”, it exaggerates them through sample bias. One IP, one vote would be my reccommend. 🙂
Sorry for the OT, Armed, but would anyone like a gmail invite? They multiply like tribbles! If so, email me at jinnderella@gmail.com. 🙂
Jinnderella,
I don’t think what Wizbang has created is a real poll. Rather, it’s a game in which there will be formal winners – blogs that take prizes – and informal but more important winners – blogs that gain new readers through the festive exposure of their work for comparison, and also new readers who gain by getting lots of recommendations for possibly worthwhile blogs to look at. (I know I’ve gained by looking at types of blogs I didn’t even know existed, such as photo-blogs.)
A popularity contest, which an election is and which this is, doesn’t have to be about finding something out (as a poll tries to) or even primarily about who comes first. This is more like a thread we had at Winds of Change after the recent American elections, focusing not on “who won?” but on “who are the new stars?”
Now, let me try again on what should be done about the cheating. I said only Wizbang needs an opinion, since he’s the one providing the free service. Joe rightly pointed out that that’s excessive – one decision, many opinions is better.
OK, here’s my opinion of the correct criterion for deciding what should be done about the cheating. The best decision will be the one that makes Wizbang feel good. If he feels that putting in a large free effort for a blog “community” infested with cheats does not make him feel good, so be it – next year there’ll be no awards. And if he does put in the effort to do this again next year, it’ll be because he found a solution that made him feel sufficiently satisfied that it is worth his while to continue to provide a free service.
If Santa Clause is unhappy with how some children react to his gifts, but decides that the way to be happy enough for him to keep doing his job is to keep giving gifts to naughty children as well as nice ones, so be it.
Or if Wizbang decided that next year he’d be happier without the participation of all the blogs that got cheat votes this time, I’d accept that – even though it would mean barring Little Green Footballs despite Charles having done no wrong.
This is about grace – an unearned gift of effort – not about justice. That’s why I think that deterring cheating is not the top priority, even though under other circumstances I would be agreeing with Joe.
David, _cher_,
Then Kevin should have said “most popular blog”, not “best”! And letting everyone vote often IS a way of popularizing new blogs and getting exposure. Sure, that’s good, if that’s what he’s after. 🙂
So, what is Kevin measuring? One IP/one vote would be more statisically sound, and also easier to tabulate. But you are right– he’s done the work, and he is the only one that really counts.
As for dKos, why should they be penalized? It is their nature. Like the scorpion in The Crying Game. ;P
I have recently beeen re-reading Common Sense by Paine. What I just finished reading is apropo to this cheating discussion. Paine reminds us that humans are not impregnable to vice and in the end, law/government is required to intercede where our moral values are lacking.
bq. “In order to gain a clear and just idea of the design and end of government, let us suppose a small number of persons settled in some sequestered part of the earth, unconnected with the rest, they will then represent the first peopling of any country, or of the world. In this state of natural liberty, society will be their first thought. A thousand motives will excite them thereto, the strength of one man is so unequal to his wants, and his mind so unfitted for perpetual solitude, that he is soon obliged to seek assistance and relief of another, who in his turn requires the same. Four or five united would be able to raise a tolerable dwelling in the midst of a wilderness, but one man might labor out the common period of life without accomplishing any thing; when he had felled his timber he could not remove it, nor erect it after it was removed; hunger in the mean time would urge him from his work, and every different want call him a different way. Disease, nay even misfortune would be death, for though neither might be mortal, yet either would disable him from living, and reduce him to a state in which he might rather be said to perish than to die.
bq. Thus necessity, like a gravitating power, would soon form our newly arrived emigrants into society, the reciprocal blessings of which, would supersede, and render the obligations of law and government unnecessary while they remained perfectly just to each other; but as nothing but heaven is impregnable to vice, it will unavoidably happen, that in proportion as they surmount the first difficulties of emigration, which bound them together in a common cause, they will begin to relax in their duty and attachment to each other; and this remissness, will point out the necessity, of establishing some form of government to supply the defect of moral virtue.”
Would one vote per IP really work? Those can be spoofed. I recently got crapflooded, which meant the script-kiddie got past Movable Type 2.661’s per-IP comment throttling.
One vote per verified e-mail address would be better, although a huge pain-in-the-arse, I’m sure.