MyDD is one of the smartest Democratic political blogs around; I often disagree with specific points he makes, but if you want to understand what the folks near the seat of power at 430 South Capitol Street Southeast are thinking, you should read his blog.
Chris Bowers has a post up that I read while bleeding the brakes on TG’s motorcycle, and I was so immediately depressed that I had to put down my tools, leave the garage, and go back into the house. He criticizes Ruy Texiera’s latest on what the Democrats need to do. After taking apart framing, inoculation, unity, and mobilization as answers to what ails Democrats, Ruy says:
Sorry, Democrats, there’s just no substitute for good ideas and fresh approaches. It’s time to jettison these myths and buckle down to the real work of change–serious change–in what Democrats say to voters.
Right f**king on. I’ve bashed Ruy’s (to me, naive) belief that demographics will somehow rescue the Democratic Party in the past; but here he is speaking for me.
Sadly, Chris is speaking for the Democratic apparatchniks.
He starts with this:
Overall, however, I actually do not believe that Ruy’s solution, changing what we tell voters, is enough. I believe that our problems are even more fundamental than our message, and in a post-national consensus era are directly tied to the ideological gap between conservatism and liberalism. We can talk about message and framing and mobilization and unity and reform and elect ability until the cows come home, but quite frankly I believe that Democrats are losing elections before they begin because of the general ideological composition of the electorate and of the nation.
In other words, we’re losing because most of the country doesn’t agree with us. His plan?
As far as I can tell, the main problem facing Democrats is that conservatives, when compared to liberals, have superior organizational control and power over what Louis Althusser famously called Ideological State Apparatuses and what on this blog I have taken to calling ideological conversion machines. To put this another way, I believe that conservatives are largely in control of those mechanisms that determine an individual’s ideological outlook, which these days is largely determinative of how an individual ends up voting. I believe that our problems are growing particularly severe when it comes to four specific ideological machines:
Education…
Labor…
Media…
Religion…
So, basically, if we can gain control of these four tactical objectives, we can change the imprinting that individuals get and thus how they vote.
What deterministic horseshit.
If you want to know why David Gelernter’s “We’re Smart, You’re Dumb” article in the LA Times was so dead-on, read this. Chris and his ilk know better then voters do what they should believe, and plan to change the social frameworks that determine their beliefs so that voters will then believe as they should.
It’s not enough to make me a conservative, but it’s sure close.
Let’s go back to school, and John Schaar, and “The Case for Patriotism”:
“Finally, if political education is to effective it must grow from a spirit of humility on the part of the teachers, and they must overcome the tendencies toward self-righteousness and self-pity which set the tone of youth and student politics in the 1960’s. The teachers must acknowledge common origins and common burdens with the taught, stressing connection and membership, rather than distance and superiority. Only from these roots can trust and hopeful common action grow.”
Chris, go read that and come back to us, will you?
Why is everyone standing on these ridiculously polarized positions regarding inoculation, unity, framing etc? Can’t we work on new ideas while we work on framing? While we work on druming up ideological support? While we get serious on the WOT and kick the moonbats out?
And by the way, “deterministic horseshit” isn’t limited to the left, A.L. You seem well versed enough in marketing to recognize this “beta vs. VHS” stuff. Even if we were to come up with a better product (which we should), obviously there’s no guarantee it’s going to sell itself. Your neo-puritanical poltical stance re: the cynical stuff Chris says is admirable, but it’s ultimately naive. I don’t believe you can rescue politics while simultaneously putting strict limits on what is politically acceptable.
Since when have the dems ever “played fair” and won? The whole modern history of this party has been full of trickery and deceat– often towards a good end, but obviously not without collateral damage.
OK, so Chris thinks that the Education, Labor and Media establishments are owned by the Right? Well, the first step to fixing a problem is recognizing you have it, and Chris isn’t there yet. These establishments are solidly Left. (This is all, of course, to the extent that Left and Right accurately describe the US political landscape these days.)
Truth is, the Democrats’ party-wide problem is that they are only represented in the elites of the large establishments. Until they can get out among the people – or bring the people in – and stop staring down their noses at the rest of America, the Democrats’ only hope is that the Republicans are idiots at a key moment before each election.
Perhaps that’s not an entirely forelorn hope, but failing to plan is planning to fail.
Sounds like Chris Bowers read Bill Bradley’s op-ed in the NYT this March, “A Party Inverted.” Oh, I guess he has; it’s reprinted “in his comments.”:http://www.mydd.com/comments/2005/3/29/195915/194/11#11
From outside the tent, these sorts of ruminations sound kind of dopey, though on reflection there are important questions being asked.
Dopey because
* Last two elections, the Republicans won about half the popular vote, and the Democrats won about half. This isn’t the same as being consigned to the electoral dungeon, forever.
* Some of these prescriptions amount to “gain even more influence over those institutions we already dominate (the mainstream press, the education establishment, political contributions by tycoons).
* Many informed centrists went to the polls believing that the Democratic ticket was unserious and evasive about national security issues because…the candidates and the party gave us ample evidence in support of those ideas. Exercises in re-framing and de-inverting pyramids aren’t the solutions to that particular problem.
Important because
* “Do we want to be more true to our beliefs, or do we want to improve our chances of electoral victory?” is one of the core questions of politics.
By all means, Democratic ideologues, ask away. No surprise, Republican control of the levers of power doesn’t lead to Good Government, any more than years of Democratic monopoly did. We (those of us in the center) could use two plausible choices, not one-and-a-half.
Last two elections, the Republicans won about half the popular vote, and the Democrats won about half. This isn’t the same as being consigned to the electoral dungeon, forever.
They got almost half because Evan Thomas was right–the MSM was in the tank for Kerry, and they got him his fifteen percent. Next election cycle, in which the New Media will even more dominant, look for the traditional Democrat edge in this area to disappear.
For instance, Democrats refusing to enter into the national conversation on social security “until the president takes privatization off the board, period.”:http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7108135/
when we last saw our correspondent, he was complaining that the Dems didn’t unite to torpedo the bankruptcy bill … funny that it was the blue dog dems you like so much who were the defectors.
SAO, on a fundamental level, the voters feel respected by the Right and disrespected by the Left, which is one reason Kansas is a Red, rather than Blue, state.
Marketing absolutely has a role. And so does listening to our fellwo citizens and engaging them in discussion – between peers – about what they might value in our values.
A.L.
AL, did you read Chris’s series on voting patterns among House Democrats? I read it as a call for party discipline and, if necessary, purging out the Blue Dog Dems. That fits what Texeira has termed “the Unity Myth” and it would seem that Bowers and Texeira disagree.
Funny, A.L. My little brother is a congressional staffer for a blue dog dem. He told me at social events Republicans often laugh when they mention the word “freedom.”
Perhaps “freedom fries” was the tip-off?
Kansas is red because of Rush Limbaugh (i.e. extremely cynical marketing) as well as Barbara Boxer (PC bourgeoisie contempt).
SAO
bq. “beta vs. VHS” stuff.
Freedom vs marxist slavery? trivial (to you) ?
bq. Even if we were to come up with a better product (which we should),
The republicans are not perfect with the freedom thing. lots of room there.
Bio diesil, hemp Bio Diesil, will it work ?
Is it viable technically ?
Well would be nice to find out, but we have a bad freedom problem there.
But you can sell that alone, you must adopt the whole liberty concept (raising taxes to “screw the rich” and other marxisms wont sell)
bq. obviously there’s no guarantee it’s going to sell itself.
Real freedom WILL sell itself, for one thing you dont need to ever LIE to do it, speaking truth means you never have to worry about your words comming back at you. is just so much easier than commie propaganda.
bq. Your neo-puritanical poltical stance re: the cynical stuff Chris says is admirable, but it’s ultimately naive. I don’t believe you can rescue politics while simultaneously putting strict limits on what is politically acceptable.
No non-commies may apply, yes thats a problem.
bq. Since when have the dems ever “played fair” and won? The whole modern history of this party has been full of trickery and deceat– often towards a good end, but obviously not without collateral damage.
They can get away with it because the media covered up for them, they still have the media, but they media is no longer the only source of information. so the old crap wont be price free any more.
Would the republicans do the same thing ? their own electorate really value the honesty thing, look how many republicans resign under what conditions vs “our guy right or wrong, very wrong, even if we find a dead girl under his house wrong” model the democrats follow, well you get the idea.
Plus. the media would never let them get away with it, only democrats get a pass.
Jeff Medcalf
bq. OK, so Chris thinks that the Education, Labor and Media establishments are owned by the Right? Well, the first step to fixing a problem is recognizing you have it, and Chris isn’t there yet.
If your a blood stained stalinist moonbat, then the softer left line of the media would look rightish to you. (to the left, National socialist Hitler was “Right Wing” despite the fact that he was a leftist extreamist by any measure, even Mousulini was a socialist, facism was his flavor of socialism.
That a socialist that had socialist parents, wrote for two socialist news papers, one his own, came to power thru the Italian socialist party, chose the roman facis as his Italisn socialist logo (the roman symbol of unity) … is called “Right Wing” by the bolshevics, tells you nothing correct about Benito but does tell you how far out wacked bolshivic the person is that thinks he was “Right Wing”
Chris has a bit of a perspective problem, and that dont bode well for his understanding of the freedom thing.
bq. Truth is, the Democrats’ party-wide problem is that they are only represented in the elites of the large establishments.
Leftist states govern that way, the people are relegated to the status of cattle. the left govern top down (freedom problem, remember?) isnt this eliteist configuration natural ?
bq. Until they can get out among the people – or bring the people in – and stop staring down their noses at the rest of America
Well it might help if the idiology didnt consider him an incompetent to trust him with his own freedom, his own money, govt knows best etc.
The message seem talored to sell to societies losers, the irresponsible and the lazy.
Thats hardly a message of hope for the country
And he isnt gonna fall for the line about becoming wealthy via govt handouts, he already understands how his surrendered dollar becomes joes quarter, with govt consuming the rest.
bq. the Democrats’ only hope is that the Republicans are idiots at a key moment before each election.
If Lugar pushed thru that LOST treaty, a pillar of the one world govt, that would be something you could ride to victory on, well if you had credibility, with the freedom thing.. you have lots of work to do there.
SAO
bq. Funny, A.L. My little brother is a congressional staffer for a blue dog dem. He told me at social events Republicans often laugh when they mention the word “freedom.”
Im not certain that has a ring of truth to it, but its not usefull as an indicator of how the electorate feel about it. Its become a really big deal with them.
If you thought the republican freedom message was a fraud, you could exploit that.
But you would also need credibility for it to work, you have work to do there.
And when americans see the ANSWER moonbats who support Kim Jong Il and crimes against humanity marching with you, it aint good for the image … not where credibility with the freedom thing,, you know, Liberty .. the thing a real Liberal (not commie Liberal) is supposed to stand for.
Socialism aint gonna sell no more, its failed and failing everywhere, and has a mountian of 174 Million skulls, that more and more americans know about, to its discredit.
Heres a thought … throw away all your planks taken out of the the “communist manifesto”http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=communist+manifesto&btnG=Google+Search , the progressive income tax,
bq. 2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
the death tax
bq. 3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
Read it as the guide for things to throw away
Rediscover what Liberal really means, not this commie Liberal perversion practiced today. that is its polar opposite, and is the first big LIE written into your very identity.
If your very label is an expression of dishonesty, how will you ever be seen as trustworthy ?
If socialism is what you are selling, then sell it as socialism.
Selling socialism with dishonesty at the start, isnt exactly telegraphing your confidence in it.
You still have the major media, but they have discredited themeselves with their own leftist lies and that will get worse not better.
So the old idea of tricking the voters into putting commie-liberals in power wont work any more.
Few seem to grok that the problem isnt marketing, its the message, marxism offered by stealth in any wrapper aint gonna fly any more.
But the republicans do have a weakness, they are really imperfect on the freedom thing, the inability to make a good test of hemp bio-diesil is just one of many.
Perhaps you could rediscover what a Liberal really was, the Classical Liberal that threw off the kings, freed the slaves, instituted equality under the law, the freedom to live one life without interference from the state as long as there is no treaspass on the rights of others.
Rediscover the Liberty, at the root of the name Liberal, and throw away all your doctrines that offend it.
The old fake Liberalism … Liberalism that means the opposite of what the word means, aint gonna sell. and its value is going DOWN not up.
Its new ideas you need, not marketing, the leftist media has been smoothing out the rough spots in your message for you for decades, and as propagandists they are the experts, you think you can Lie better than they can ?
Did the media tell America that John Kerry Glorified a man guilty of crimes against humanity ?
Ho Che Mihn murdered his own people with a 5% mass murder quota, just like stalin, John Kerry called him “George Washington”
You think the media could not have hurt him ?
The media ignored the swift boaters untill John Kerry himself brought them up. the leftist media ignored them to help kerry hoping they would go away
But, the media dont control information any more. so the lies wont work any more.
Well, good luck with the message, but you need to change the make up of it, not the make up on it.
Freedom, try that, the republicans have big holes there, redicover what Liberal really means, kick your communist Kim Jong and Castro worshiping moonbats out of bed.
With the freedom message, you will find authority to attack the republicans for getting too accepting of ChiCom slave labor that is undermining the american worker.
Boy is that a big hole you can drive the freedom train thru.
The republicans are vulnerable here. the message sells, it can be sold with total honesty.
Tired of Lies and Lieing ? tired of hippocracy ? tired of losing ?
Freedom and Liberty, still in short supply everywhere, tastes great hot or cold, sells itself, serves as it own message.
You can still call yourself a Liberal, without that up front big Lie about what you stand for.
Sure would be nice when people like me can say “Im a Liberal” without people miss-understanding that as communist or some kind of socialist-lite.
So I have to say “Classical Liberal” and then still must explain it means the opposite of what Liberal means in the USA.
Get what im saying here ? your very name has become a Lie, untill that is fixed, untill total honesty can be both your mode and a part of your message ….
Real Liberalism instead of the fake stuff
Try it, you might like it.
Nice rant Ray.
I think Ray’s key point is something I wrote about here in May of ’03. Socialism is Dead.
You want to help the poor? Get the economy growing at a steady 8 – 10% a year. That will do more for the minimum wage than any vote in Congress.
Many democrats are brilliant strategists, and see the field very clearly. Unfortunately they are overwhelmed by superior numbers of dull witted leftists within their own party whose ability to learn from events in the real world was lost decades ago. These loser leftists never learn. Democrats who care about their party and about america need to lose these losers quickly.
Ray,
I think politics in most countries, especially America, defies your single-axis scale of ideology (i.e. left/marxists—-right/freedom).
Believe it or not, not all collective values terminate in marxism. Authoritarians and totalitarians come in all shapes, sizes, and left/right proclivities. I’m sure it’s comforting to throw a “one-size fits all” recipe on every which political subject, but here it just looks silly.
I’d also hesitate to describe yourself as a “classic liberal.” No doubt, I’d love to see that moniker rescued from socialism, but it also entails an epistemological open-mindedness (or freedom) which you seem to lack.
SAO
I lack nothing.
Point to just where you find evidence of “lack”
And perversion of language is something George Orwell wrote about, you should see his rant about using the label Facism too loosely
Liberty and Liberal has nothing to do with open minded, unless your a communist and you want your target to be “open minded” to becoming a slave.
So open minded that the mass murder of 174 Million people is “breaking a few eggs”
There has a problem with the moral offensivness of leftism that violate the most basic and anchent principles, and if you dont accept evil, why your not “open minded”
And that sir, is exactly what form of “open minded” ness they are talking about. and no other kind. we have seen the most creative inventive and just society everr to bless the face of the earth without the leftist form of “open minded” being nessisary.
Lacking ? where. you dont get that one for free.
*makes tough guy face*
I lack NOTHING!
I found SAO’s comments to be fatuous. Classical liberals date back to the conflict between ruling monarchies and the will to representative republics. The perversion of the classical liberal ideal by reactionary leftists has only stained the name, not the ideal. As Shakespeare noted, names are a dime a dozen.
“Sorry, Democrats, there’s just no substitute for good ideas and fresh approaches. It’s time to jettison these myths and buckle down to the real work of change–serious change–in what Democrats say to voters.”
If Ruy Texiera has ever had a good idea or fresh approach to offer, I certainly haven’t heard of it.
If the DLC has a good idea or fresh approach I haven’t heard of it either, for all the ranting they do about how the rest of us Democrats should have one.
Nor have I found any among the so-called Blue Dog Democrats. Other than being “conservative Democrats”, I haven’t the vaguest notion what they stand for.
Moreover, if the self-proclaimed “moderates” and “centrists” in America have ANY ideas at all about what they want government to do, that Democrats could satisfy, I haven’t heard much about them either.
And certainly AL has no ideas in the post above other than that Chris Bowers should stop looking down his nose at everybody else.
Now I, for one, as a Progressive Democrat, am all ears for good ideas and fresh approaches, and would certainly be willing to listen to anyone who had them and not shout them down.
But the point of politics is policy. Policy is about what you want from government. As a Progressive, I know what I want from government. And as a reader of genuinely Conservative opinion I have a pretty good idea what they want from government, and it definitely isn’t what I want.
But, as for everybody else, I haven’t a clue what they want, or what policies they would actually support. So I’m not even in a position to ask them for good ideas and fresh approaches.
I would be thrilled to get ANY approach at all from them to think about, and ANY idea they might happen to have had incidentally to listen to.
I’m not absolutely sure what Chris thinks about “establishments being owned by the Right”. I certainly don’t think this. But what I do think is that those establishments are penetrated through and through with the advanced state of thoughtlessness that leaves you unable to tell the difference between policy and spin.
They can’t even ask the questions sensibly, so how can you get to even present them with a good idea or a fresh approach?
“Now I, for one, as a Progressive Democrat, am all ears for good ideas and fresh approaches, and would certainly be willing to listen to anyone who had them and not shout them down.”
A Fresh way to sell socialism isnt gonna sell.
So I’m not even in a position to ask them for good ideas and fresh approaches.
Fresh packaging on the stale socialist idea isnt going to help.
Its the “progressive” idea itself that is being rejected, a fresh wrapper on a stench product isnt going to help.
Its the make up of, not the makup on, that has to be renewed. that might leave you running off to join the green party or something, but the democrats have no hope of finding a new idea as long as what still animates them is the old one.
Im quite fond of some democrat notions of personal freedom, if they could leave the communist manifesto behind, and rediscover the Liberty from where the word Liberal comes from, they could build on that.
But I cant see how when half the planks in their core doctrine is its opposite.
Joseph, I’ve been writing about this for over three years;I’ve got a substantial set of concrete suggestions that I’ve made over that time which I’m not going to recapitulate here.
I’ll suggest that you search this site for “Sewer Socialism” as a good first read.
A.L.
Ray, long rant (#10). I’m starting to think that maybe you need a blog of your own to put them in.
FYI, here’s a link where “A.L. explains what he means by sewer socialism.”:http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/005510.php
Was very enjoyable, and i must say, I liked the first comment #1 from Andrew.
But is that Socialism ?
Seems to me, the Hard core Libertarians might say so, but im not one of them.
Thats not to say I dont have problems with cities that annex the burbs again and again, forcing the people to move again to escape the taxes.
When i moved here the city limits was 20 miles away, now its about 10. and all this open land of trees and pasture will be forced chopped inti tiny little bits when the city comes, down the the size of an affordable tax bill.
Thats ok, all the people will move again, the area will become a slum, and they will be forced to extend the 8 lane portion of the highway some more. and more industry will move out or close down.
People still have the right to vote with the feet ya know.
Right now democrap controlled cities only want two types of people, the uber rich, and those on a govt subsidy, those in the middle cant afford the taxes. and if trapped there, are looking for an exit.
On target for the topic here, some commetary that sounds like my echo by “Dr Sanity”:http://drsanity.blogspot.com/2005/05/either-impractical-or-hysterical.html
bq. Personally, I think that, like the Jihadists, they prefer to commit political suicide–taking down as much of the country as possible–rather than to consider amending their hypocritical class warfare bullshit. The rehashed (and fully discredited) Marxist, pseudoreligious ideology they embrace like dogma is not capable of connecting to the real people who live and work in a free society. Real people see them as either impractical or completely hysterical.
Who is commenting on a new scolding by “VD Hanson”:http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/hanson050605.html
bq. We are in unsure times amid a controversial war. Yet the American people are not swayed by the universities, the major networks, the New York Times, Hollywood, the major foundations, and NPR. All these bastions of doctrinaire liberal thinking have done their best to convince America that George W. Bush, captive to right-wing nuts and Christian fanatics, is leading the country into an abyss. In fact, a close look at a map of red/blue counties nationwide suggests that the Democrats are in deepening trouble.
bq. Why? In a word, Democratic ideology and rhetoric have not evolved from the 1960s, although the vast majority of Americans has — and an astute Republican leadership knows it.
Well, I donno about Republicans being all that astute, if they dont get the act together in the immigration thing …. (another oppertunity for the democrats)
But they are saying, basically, the same thing I am but not near so crudely.
Well, Armed Liberal, I’ll take you up on your offer. I’ve plugged in “sewer socialism” to the search engine, and I seem to have come up with two posts of yours which are relevant, “Kotkin on Kerry” and “Mormons, Missions, Skyboxes”. If there are any more, I’m sure you’ll tell me.
So what do you have to say? Not that much actually, but you do have plenty to quote, principly from Mr. Kotkin. That’s OK. Maybe Mr. Kotkin has put things much better than you or I could aspire to do. This is what he says he wants Democrats to do:
“by getting out of the way and letting entrepreneurs create jobs, while keeping the scam artists from looting the banks and corporations…by designing tax policy that is simple, fair, and tilted toward those who work rather than those who invest…and by figuring out…how to get out of the way and let the market provide the private goods these people need to have decent lives….a serious effort to address the crises affecting U.S. cities … dysfunctional school systems, a declining middle class, eroding employment and rising populations of mostly poor, new immigrants.”
Well, let’s see. I don’t know about anywere else, but I would say that here in Ohio there are no Democrats getting in the way of entrepreneurs magically creating job out of thin air.
After all, we’re not the majority party here. But it just doesn’t seem to be happening, here or anywhere else. I wonder why? And I wonder what Mr. Kotkin or you would suggest be done about it?
Then, of course, I can’t see that Democrats, for the last five years at least, have really been getting in the way of letting the market provide things like the rising wages, better jobs, and more comprehensive health insurance that any American needs to lead a better life.
So why are so many of us (like me) now working worse jobs, for lower wages, and no benefits at all? Curious, isn’t it? Do you or Mr. Kotkin have and good ideas or fresh approaches?
Tax relief? Well, we’ve had plenty of that. What’s the real good it’s done for us?
Now I said before that as a Progressive I want quite definite things to be done and I haven’t a clue what my “centrist” and “moderate” friends want done.
In schools I want enough money flushed through them to make a national commitment that no teacher ever will face more than 20 children in a class at one time, and will usually face far fewer than 20. That is how you actually educate well.
I also want the states and federal government to PAY for the standardized tests they mandate and not leave local districts holding the bag.
This means that I want the inconsistent funding of schools through local real estate taxes to be replaced by consistent, generous, and fair state and federal funding.
That’s what I want. What does Mr. Kotkin want? What do you want?
As to the Middle Class, I want a serious confrontation with the REAL facts about when, and under what Presidencies, middle-class life actually thrived in this country. You can find them here: http://www.inequality.org/facts.html.
I’ll give you a hint. It wasn’t under Reagan or George I and it isn’t under George II. I want the government actions that the evidence shows WORKED to foster middle-class life in this country put back in place.
What does Mr. Kotkin want? What do you want?
Illegal immigrants, oh, pardon me, “guest workers”, are simply a peonage under the thumb of the people who employ them. They must hide from the authorities, they cannot vote, and they cannot organize.
I want serious criminal penalties, including jail time for executives, for the people who HIRE them. Once I have that, but not until I have that, I want our borders and our laws straightened out so that all who want to come and work legally can do so in a way and at a rate that we can manage. And I want some serious dialog about what that rate actually is.
What does Mr. Kotkin want? What do you want?
So how do we all get what we want? Well, in “Mormons, Missions, Skyboxes” you have some sage advice for we Progressives as to how to get it:
“First, an article by Christopher Hayes called ‘How to Turn Your Red State Blue.’
It’s a paean to ground-level political organizing, and advocates, simply, that liberals copy Mormon youths on their missions. Literally….I believe that it would be transformative for modern liberalism – it would force liberals to get out and talk to their fellow Americans, and it just might result in some opened eyes on both sides of the ideological fence. It would, more than anything reaffirm the connection liberals have – and ought to have – with their fellow Americans and with America as a whole….what has happened is that the labor movement has abandoned the low-paid employees that it ought to defend in favor of high-wage public employees who are easy to defend. Hayes doesn’t see labor involvement in the lives of average working Americans because the labor movement is working hard for those who may need it least. We have a Skybox labor movement to go with the Skybox liberals.”
I would say that as an ex-academic with some nice initials to put after my name when I need them, I certainly would qualify as a “skybox” liberal. In the last election I also worked for ACT. You know ACT, I’m sure. Americans Coming Together, and they are as liberal as it gets.
ACT was on the ground here in Columbus making the preliminary contacts as far back as January 2004. It’s real cold here in January and those hardy souls froze their Democratic Donkeys off going person to person out in the neighborhoods, urban and suburban.
Now I am too old, too fat, and too sick to go banging on doors. But in the two months immediately prior to the election, when push was coming to shove, I was banging on computer keys entering the data used by the people who were banging on the doors. I know just how much person-to person contact with “real Americans” went on here.
The space where I was working was lent very kindly to ACT by the SEIU. Ever hear of them? They are the Service Employees International Union, the largest and most dynamic player in what’s left of the labor movement. They represent janitors, nurses, security guards, and all sorts of other “average working Americans”. They are also the people trying to unionize Wal-Mart.
Unfortunately, we were beaten on the ground. We were beaten because, while our ground game was good, the other guys’ was a little bit better, not because we were up in some skybox. Actually it was only about 1-2% better,if you look at the popular vote.
They didn’t do much person to person contact,either. They worked by word-of-mouth primarily through the Protestant Evangelical Churches here, and they phone banked their hardcores in the exurbs intensively in the last two weeks.
The church network is clandestine, of course; after all, there is that tax free status to consider. But even then, ACT still delivered Franklin County for Kerry.
So we should get out and get to know “real Americans” again? That’s very good advice you have to give to us skybox liberals and our union friends.
But I do have one question.
If SEIU picketed to organize your local Wal-Mart, would you show solidarity and refuse to cross the picket line?
bq. Well, let’s see. I don’t know about anywere else, but I would say that here in Ohio there are no Democrats getting in the way of entrepreneurs magically creating job out of thin air.
Cut his taxes and regulation, and yes, they do create jobs right out of thin air, in fact they do the most job creation.
bq. After all, we’re not the majority party here. But it just doesn’t seem to be happening, here or anywhere else. I wonder why?
stop opposong them doing the things needed, such as cutting taxes and regs. If you change the faces but nothing else, nothing changes.
Let Freedom happen, try that.
bq. Tax relief? Well, we’ve had plenty of that. What’s the real good it’s done for us?
Not enough, might slow jobs from leaving a little, but once you have done that much damage, it takes a lot of reversal. and time, before they start coming back.
It wasnt built overnight, you spent years destroying it.
Frankly, I its funny you are attempting to disprove what is impossible to disprove, lefties are delusional on this topic, proving to all you cant trust them with the economy.
And people are taking notice.
bq. and it just might result in some opened eyes on both sides of the ideological fence.
A conversation between truth and fraud ?
Leftism is proven wrong, its problem is that its wrong, you need a new idology, not another 70 years of conversation over the failed and discredited one.
bq. In the last election I also worked for ACT. You know ACT, I’m sure. Americans Coming Together, and they are as liberal as it gets.
If Liberal means communist. All such groups with those propaganda-fraud tell tale wholesome sounding names are seen as gatherings of Red Kihmers. The T Shirts we see you wearing with Marx Mao Castro and Che on them certainly look right in place there.
bq. Unfortunately, we were beaten on the ground. We were beaten because, while our ground game was good, the other guys’ was a little bit better,
So its still mobilisation. not the ideas eh ?
Ahh Yeah, thats the ticket.
Ohh well, get used to losing. the nice consistent slope and direction on the trend line the past 25 years or so look good to me.
Since Barry Goldwater its taken us with the freedom-forward message, and almost as long
to turn the endless democrap stagflation into an sustained expansion, (with much credit due to Kennedy, who was a tax cutting anti communist and so would not be welcome in your party today)
And just what idea can compete with Liberty and Freedom ?
The idea that has special revelance to America.
You still think you can compete with that with leftist slavery ?
bq. If SEIU picketed to organize your local Wal-Mart, would you show solidarity and refuse to cross the picket line?
What is the SEIU posistion on ChiCom slave labor?
Goods made with slave labor, in Laogia forced labor camps.
bq. Most Laogai camps have two names: a public name (usually an enterprise name), and an internal administrative name (usually a number). “Hangzhou Wulin Machine Works,” for example, is one of the public names for the Zhejiang Province No. 4 Prison.
bq. A Mandarin term, “Laogai” translates literally as “reform through labor,” but within China, the term has a wider, colloquial meaning.
bq. There, the word – no matter the context in which it is uttered, can strike fear in the hearts and minds of average Chinese. Almost everyone in China is related to or knows someone who has served a lengthy sentence in a Laogai camp. Millions know people who simply disappeared into the camps, never to be heard from again.
Walmat products made in the Chinese Gulag, their gift from Mao
Look, another cause celebre for democrats, one people like me would find common cause with, well, if you had any credibility on the freedom thing
I cant yet invision those, half who wear Mao T Shirts, haveing a credible message, they are just as likely wanting to put me in one, since im certainly one of those “enemies of the people”, in their eyes.
In fact here is an indicator, when the stalinist moonbats are protesting you instead of signing up for your voter drives, that will be a sign of progress.
Yup, thats a long way to go, but dont it show you how far off in the left ditch you have gone ?
When the commies start beating you up while you stand inline outside of a resteraunt, kicking your 9 year old girl in the face, like they did to us during our convention, shooting guns into our volunteer offices, like they did ours, it will be a sign you have made progress.