Europe Dying? Maybe not.

The Examiner has an editorial up suggesting that Europe may be a lost cause, as the freedom-loving flee the EU bureaucracy and looming Islamization, leaving behind the basis for an Islamic Europe – Eurabia, as some have put it.

I’m not so sure.

I think Europe is headed for some dark days, but I think that we’ll see a National Front/LePen politics emerge and that both the EUrocrats and Muslim population will get pushed back very hard by a far-right, nationalist politics.

That may not be as bad as Eurabia, from America’s point of view. But it won’t be good.

As a note about attitudes changing, note Thursday’s comments by the French Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy:

“I have significantly evolved on the matter of the separation fence” said Douste-Blazy on French Jewish television TFJ on Thursday. “Although the wall was a moral and ethical problem for me, when I realised terror attacks were reduced by 80 percent in the areas where the wall was erected, I understood I didn’t have the right to think that way.”

Concern about a “Paris Intifada” does evolve one’s thinking, doesn’t it?

24 thoughts on “Europe Dying? Maybe not.”

  1. I’m not sure that the prospect of a new Holocaust would lead me to revise the conclusion that Europe is a “lost cause.”

    In 2000, when I lived there, I gave the EU 15-20 more years. Unfortunately, I later read that the CIA agreed with me, so I’ve been rendered skeptical.

    But I stick by the prediction of a bloodbath one way or the other: either Muslims butchered by ethnic Europeans, or the other way around. Or both. Or maybe just France and Germany getting together for another round.

  2. You can have a left-wing Europe or a right-wing Europe, and barely tell the difference between the two. Same cynical despair with a different cast.

    How about a Europe devoted to economic freedom, democratic reform, and stalwart opposition to tyranny; a Europe which is a true friend and ally of free and democratic nations? And an implacable foe of all socialist-fascist regimes, even the politically useful ones that are loaded with oil. A Europe with Thatchers in it instead of Le Pens. A hopeful Europe that smiles once in a while.

    Since that’s not realistic, how about we build a monorail to the moon? Maybe the vacuum of space would sort of suck the trains up the rail, saving lots of fuel.

  3. There have been Muslims previously in Europe, and they were not “exterminated”:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morisco.

    Rob Lyman (#1)

    _In 2000, when I lived there, I gave the EU 15-20 more years._

    A very short shigted comment. Europe cannot grant a minimal living standard to their citizens unless their nations conform a common market for goods, capitals and persons. If the EU fails, something better would have to be invented, as when the European Monetary System failed, the Euro currency had to be introduced. BTW, next March 25th is the 50th “birthday”:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Rome of this common market.

    A.L.

    _I think Europe is headed for some dark days, but I think that we’ll see a National Front/LePen politics emerge and that both the EUrocrats and Muslim population will get pushed back very hard by a far-right, nationalist politics._

    Respectfully, does not it suggest that the opposition against the Left is far-right fascists? Is not that a _propaganda_ slogan from the Left that is repeated here?

    In addition, are not the principles of freedom of movement of goods, capitals and people, on which the EU is based and on which Europe’s economic growth depends, Classic Liberal ones? Does not it show that if Europe has to survive, that is the way to follow?

  4. Armed Lib “will get pushed back very hard by a far-right, nationalist politics.”

    That I think is the future in a nutshell. The old schoolers are not just going to quietly into the night like the Pansies so happily will with the warm fuzzy feeling that justice has finally been done for the West’s past sins or whatever.

    The sad part to me is that Europe has allowed itself to sink so low that conservatism cannot save them only the far right of the old school EU colonialist, nationalist, racist type Rightwingers.

    The bad thing is yes the old school EU will be better than the Eurabia but it wont be all that great for the future either. We are running full alt back to the early part of the century its going to be ugly very ugly.

    I guess the LLL’s in EU are waking up (the hard way)to why thier is not one Pacifist nation on Earth.

    We should be looking at our future becuase the EU is US if allowed in 20-50yrs. The LLL propoganda was pushed much deaper in EU than here in the US.

  5. Left, right doesn’t matter. The true rulers are the bureacrats.

    I did find it humerous that even predicting the end of all for Europe, the Examiner article snubed the US as apparently not a decent place to escape to.

    As to Mr. Lymans comments, yep anything can happen there. I would say that even a far right government in France would be an improvement. Perhaps such a government would dislodge the elitists that run that continent. Would the be our friends? Probably not but then they’re not our friends now either. At least there would be some type of change instead of this lockstep march into purgatory that they seem to be following.

    I’m tempted to say I don’t give a damn but that’s not truthfull. If for nothing else I hope things work out for that guesthouse owner in Bad Tolz, for the people in that tiny farming town in Northern France that had no road sign. They weren’t the bureaucratic rulers or the social elite. Just regulare people who deserve to be allowed their lives. For them only I hope it doesn’t turn to blood. For the rest of Europe though I only have the back of my hand.

  6. If the EU were just a tariff-lowering free-market treaty, I’d be fine with that. Indeed, I’d be positively delighted.

    But it is far more (or less) than that, and you know it, Mr. Aguilar. I don’t expect NAFTA to collapse, but that’s largely because it isn’t an attempt to subsume the soverignty of its participants into a superstate ruled by unelected, unaccoutable, and deeply corrupt bureaucrats who regard themselves as the heirs to the now-defunct nobility.

    Which the EU is. Which is why it will collapse.

    The violence part of my predicition is based on 1) car-b-que, and 2) betting on form, as Mark Steyn would say.

  7. J Aguilar:

    In addition, are not the principles of freedom of movement of goods, capitals and people, on which the EU is based and on which Europe’s economic growth depends, Classic Liberal ones?

    The principles of the EU are protectionism and the expansion of political power through territorial control; more like classic imperialism than classic liberalism. On which Europe’s economic growth depends? What economic growth?

    Here are some more EU “principles”: If you haven’t got it, it must be because somebody took it away from you. Peaceful economic competition is “the moral equivalent of war” (cf. Jimmy Carter).

  8. Proposition- Sunnis take de facto control of France, Shiia control of Germany. WW3 is initiated between them. US must rush to defense of Europe with Kurdish allies. But not till 3 years in.

  9. Integration of different populations – despite some troubles – is one of the deep saving graces of this land called the United States.

    All the studies show that, come the 2nd generation, all immigrant families identify themselves as AMERICAN first, THEN (India, Pakistani, Irish, Iranian, filipino) the race of origin.

    I can’t see how this will change in Europe, because in a sense, EVERYONE in the U.S. comes from an immigrant family. (Except for american indians, of course.)

    But this isn’t the case in European countries. “frenchness” is associated with one’s family coming from France, not in being born or naturalized in France.

    And thus the isolation of 2nd and 3rd generations, from the culture at large in which they are embedded.

  10. _(Except for american indians, of course.)_

    Were they born here? Not to hijack the thread (i agree with you on this one), but the idea that native americans were truly native and hence had an absolute claim on the Americas always makes me chuckle. For one thing, its not like some particular tribe climbed into the Siberian Mayflower and spawned the entire race. It was a succession of nomadic groups crossing the Bering Straight. So were the Inca the natives and the Apache the imperialists?

  11. Hypocrisy can’t wrap his head around the real issue:

    ISLAM.

    Muslims want to make Europe into a variation of Afghanistan, and use violence, rape, murder, car-b-ques etc. to make this happen. Hence the demands: it’s “OK” to rape the infidel, kill gays, etc.

    Most of Sweden suffers from Muslim rape-attacks, ditto Aussie.

    Eventually Swedes and Aussies will be sick and tired of rape attacks against non-Muslim women, and form vigilante groups to drive Muslims out as the governments cower in Multi-culti terror. I mean it’s not as if Hypocrisy or people like him would EVER support simply jailing Muslims who rape and arming women to shoot attackers (making them equal via Samuel Colt). A few dead rapists would do wonders for women’s safety.

    Instead expect Hypocrisy to object: we can’t “judge” non-Western cultures, it’s “all our fault” for Danish cartoons or rude words by a Byzantine emperor or such, etc.

    The conflagaration will be neither Left (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Castro, beloved of the Left) or Right (Hitler, Mussolini, or Franco). It will instead be Caesarist, or Napoleonist, a military man with political ambitions most of which center around upsetting the old elite and putting in his own; with the added bonus of gaining legitimacy by defending European values (booze, women, freedom from Islam/Sharia, public safety).

    Which means the Muslims who view Europe as one gigantic village for the pillaging are going to eventually get slaughtered. The Car-b-Que youths are going to get the chop, and so will the ones in Arhus and Malmo. The only question is will the killing be over quickly or take years.

  12. Europe, unfortunately, is probably going to do its usual thing: put off the common sense solution until it is no longer available, embrace some all-encompassing theory that pretends to explain and solve everything, and fall to slaughtering each other. Although this time, I wonder if they even have the energy to slaughter each other (I am excepting their Muslim population, of course).

    The best thing Europe had going for them was their technological and economic dominance. They still have the technology, but domestic politics prevents them from applying it to self-defense. Their economies are similarly tied up in keeping constituencies happy and politicians in office. Maybe they will redeploy their assets in defense of their civilization; maybe they will do so in time to affect the outcome; maybe not.

  13. Rob (#6)

    _If the EU were just a tariff-lowering free-market treaty, I’d be fine with that. Indeed, I’d be positively delighted._

    It is not a tariff-lowering free-market treaty, but a free-market, free-movenment-of-capital, free-movement-of-labour treaty. It is far more complex than NAFTA and it does need an administration to keep it working.

    _Which the EU is. Which is why it will collapse._

    The European Space Research Organization (ESRO) collapsed, the European Space Agency (ESA) was created. The European Monetary System failed, the Euro currency had to be set. If the EU collapses, something better would have to be built to administer the common market.

    The so-much-critized EU administration is simply a tool in today’s Europe, a tool upon it is reflected the reality we are living. If it collapses another one would be produced to face that reality.

    Glen Wishard,

    _The principles of the EU are protectionism and the expansion of political power through territorial control_

    No, Glen, those are not the principles. And if it were, no people would have approved in referendum to join the EU.

    _On which Europe’s economic growth depends? What economic growth?_

    You know, the EU are today 25 countries, ten of them coming from eastern Europe. It is not France, Germany and Italy.

    _Here are some more EU “principles”: If you haven’t got it, it must be because somebody took it away from you. Peaceful economic competition is “the moral equivalent of war” (cf. Jimmy Carter)._

    A very short shigted point of view, which does not take into account the reality of today’s Europe.

    hypocrisyrules (#10)

    Well Latinoness might be associated with the Italian region of Lazio were Rome was built. Portuguese, Italians, Romanians, Spaniards and most of Latin Americans, they all share the same basic culture and a very similar language, which makes further generations easier to integrate.

    Jim Rockford (#12)

    _The conflagaration will be neither Left (Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Castro, beloved of the Left) or Right (Hitler, Mussolini, or Franco)_

    Hitler, with his National Socialist Workers Party was a Right-winger?? Mussolini, a former Socialist leader, was a Right-winger?? General Franco was a Right-winger??

    IMHO the real problem is far more complex and has not been adressed in the post or all these comments. One thing that complicates this so much is the *European Welfare State and the privileges it endows to certain groups*: Muslims, with a superior religion, they think; must have better privileges in the European societies.

    In addition, when those privileges are in danger, Europeans tend to violently demonstrate on the streets. Muslims have proved that they can do it much better so, why do we keep denying them?

    What Muslims want in France *now* is just that. They don’t pretend to attack openly the State, but to have their own State within the State, with their own rules and their own allies at the other shore of the Mediterranean. And then, ask for more.

    Europeans, especially western Europeans, have erased any public discrimination on religion. It is something private and people do not step on it. They tend to ask the State for economic privileges. For Muslims, religion is not something private, but something that transcends into the goverment. They use the same tools to try to fully develop it.

    What is the solution? No privileges at all. The government should limit itself to enforce the Law and step out of economics. Why is it not being applied? Because a wide number of Europeans are protected, economically, by privileges endowed by the State, and no European politician will ever attempt to proceed against them.

    That is why the far right has some lure. They propose to the un-privileged Europeans, a swap (not a reform) on the system. A swap that is unlikely to occur when, for instance, 39% of Frenchmen work for the privileged public sector.

  14. folks who think europe is going to roll over because of islam are presupposing that europeans have separated themselves from the last 1000 years of their history. europe will do what it does best–it will let a problem fester until the silent sheepish majority wakes up to the wolf at the door. then the bloodletting starts. each and every time it gets more gruesome. this time will be no different. last century alone they clipped about 100 million when you throw in stalin’s madness.

    once it starts i’d look to railroad stocks as a good investment.

  15. Hmmm I think the silent sheepish majority is sedated with subventions, and the Extremists plan is well conceived: acquire privileges in order to build a State inside the State, with the support of the European far Left and the overwhelming presence of the Leftist mass media.

    European response against them has not been mass murdered, on the contrary, Muslims and descendants in Spain enjoyed a more than 100 hundred years period to integrate, before they were finally “expelled”:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morisco. Mass murder is a post-industrial development that resulted from a constructivist theory of society endowed by Socialism and Nationalism, not a defense strategy. In addition, barbed wire was also set around civilians in the other side of the pond during WWII.

  16. I think that there is going to be a huge surge in European emigration over the next twenty years as the people realize they are past the point of no return.

  17. #17,

    Custom inudstrial oven designers and builders should do well also.

    =======================

    J. Aguilar,

    The problem is not the free movement of labor between countries. The problem is that there is very little free movement of labor within countries. i.e. at will employment.

    There is also the problem of integration. How does one become a real Frenchman, a real German? Compare and contrast that with how to become a real American.

    I agree that Europe will let this problem fester until there is major blood in the streets. Theo Van Gough was not enough.

  18. #19 from Amphipolis: “I think that there is going to be a huge surge in European emigration over the next twenty years as the people realize they are past the point of no return.”

    There will be a surge, but demographics mean there will be a lot of people who will be older, trapped by some European language, without the means or the optimism to move easily. For them, long waiting times to emigrate legally to some desired country will mean “never”.

    Also, emigration from Europe will become harder. Europe will become a swarming hive of implacable aggressors, a region from which nobody sane would wish to receive unfiltered mass immigration. We could filter by religion of course – but to say that is to realize that we won’t do it, because of political correctness, and fear of offending oil suppliers and our own Muslim populations. We’ll just make it harder for everyone.

  19. M. Simon (#20)

    I was referring the Spanish policy towards the Moriscos during the 16th and 17th centuries and the American policy towards Japanese-origin Americans during the WWII. *All the paragraph talks about defense*, not Socialist movements to build a _new Society_.

    Moriscos were helping Algerian pirates to sack the Spanish coast, as Japanese-origin Americans were feared to do so in America. Spain was also fighting against the Turkish Empire, the equivalent of the Japanese, both powers on their own _seas_, the Mediterranean and the Pacific.

    If I had wanted to put at the same level the developments at both sides of the Atlantic during WWII, I would have called all them “concentration camps”, as some do.

    Sorry for the misunderstanding.

    M. Simon (#21)

    _The problem is not the free movement of labor between countries. The problem is that there is very little free movement of labor within countries. i.e. at will employment._

    You know, on holidays in the Spanish Mediterranean coast I had always wanted to wear a T-Shirt with “French Go Home” written on it. The problem is that two of the French people I know that are working in Spain, are Jews, and they might accuse me of reviving the old days.

    In addition, many Spanish doctors and medical personnel are working in the U.K., which has a permanent deficit for those proffesionals (in fact for almost all people with a degree). But, you know, unless they get married, they come back to the ever lasting Spanish blue skies.

    If there are jobs, people moves. It is nothing compared to the U.S, but it happens.

    _There is also the problem of integration. How does one become a real Frenchman, a real German? Compare and contrast that with how to become a real American._

    AFAIK you become German when you speak good German, which is not easy: you must live many years there. It is a excepcionally effective method to discriminate, and it has its roots in the 19th century Nationalism: the Germans are the people that speak German.

    Its far easier to become a Spaniard, as I said on #15.

    _I agree that Europe will let this problem fester until there is major blood in the streets. Theo Van Gough was not enough._

    I think there has already been major blood on the streets. The problem is that public opinion change is hampered by the Welfare State and all that stuff I have commented on previous posts (#15, #18)

  20. #23,

    I probably should have been clearer.

    Yes there are rules and paperwork in Germany, France, and America to become citizens.

    That is not the same as cultural acceptance.

    ==========

    BTW I think you make my point about not enough blood in the streets.

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