Sorry for the lack of free ice cream, but work has been leaving me feeling like Laocoon this week…
The big news is, obviously Obama. It’s on, as we say, and I think it’s going to be a great election. We’ve got two dysfunctional political parties, each one racing toward it’s own kind of oblivion – the GOP into irrelevancy, since most if the efforts it has made are about securing donors an appropriate place at the trough – and since they are losing power, why should the donors care? – and the Democrats, who have for decades managed to weld contradictory interest groups together into a coalition. Now the most reliable two members of the coalition want to kill each other. And we’ve got to decent, human, smart candidates, each with a wheelbarrow of flaws.
So which party mechanism will crumble faster? Which candidate’s flaws will blow up in their faces? And meanwhile, we may actually have an intelligent dispute about issues if the candidates can escape their handlers long enough to speak their minds.
Oh, and did I mention that a black man was nominated for the Presidency? For all the jet-setters who talk about the progressive wonders of Europe, try standing a well-spoken black man up as a prime ministerial candidate in England or France or Italy. Only in America – but oh, wait, we’re not really exceptional…
So, have you been out to see if the Pacific has receded? Because I got to tell you, my gorge has risen to an alarming degree.
BTW, the British beat us with the first woman. And they beat us to the first Jewish leader 150 years ago. Both of whom were exemplary individuals and outstanding leaders – oh, sorry. That was tactless.
The good news for your man Obama is that he can now add Bill Clinton to his wheelbarrow. I can see ol’ Bill out on the campaign trail now, blazing a path for the new Boy Wonder. Ha ha ha.
Well A.L it would certainly be exceptional if the Barockstar obtained the nomination _and_ carried the platform of Ralph Nader. Hell, I might even find myself in the unfamiliar position of standing in a voting booth punching the ticket for a Democratic nominee. Of course in such an alternate universe Obama’s platform would actually contrast in some fundamental way with that of Team Bush or Hillary Inc.
The late Tom Lantos used to tell an “Only in America” story about rising from Holocaust refugee to Congress. Unfortunately, it isn’t so only in America. Austria, where anti-Semitism is alive and well, managed to elect Holocaust survivor Bruno Kreisky to office, and France had a Jewish Prime Minister (not a Christian of Jewish descent, like the Brits) before World War Two. Also after.
What makes American exceptional here, I’m afraid, is the large number of African Americans whose ancestors arrived in chains and the recency of their oppression. Yes, it is a great sign that Obama could be nominated, but it’s a sign of something long overdue about the decreasing influence of once-prevalent white supremacy and on balance I wouldn’t toot the horn too loud.
bq. try standing a well-spoken black man up
You do realize I hope that referring to a black person as “well-spoken” is considered condescending and potentially racist, do you not?
I think “Chris Rock put it well.”:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkqwspFr3D8
bq. Chris Rock on white folk and Colin Powell: “… he speaks so well. He’s so well spoken. He speaks so well. ‘Speaks so well’ is not a compliment!!! ‘Speaks so well’ is something you say about retarded people who can talk!”
Disraeli and Thatcher, not at all like the stereotype characteristic
of either group. Probably because they focused on assimilation to the larger society rather than accentuation of cultural
differences.
It is regretable than one has to ‘say well spoken’ as acompliment
to a Powell, a Jackson, an Obama. But that is because the culture, rewards the most nihilistic atavistic representations of that society. Chris Rock, for his cultural conservatism in some areas, with his self pitying routines; is sadly a symbol of this trend. It does seem that African Americans of immigrant stock; seem to be less disposed to this pattern. That is one of the good things of the Obamacandidacy. However, his predisposition to turning to left social and foreign policies; is regrettable in this regard.
Sepp, I think we’re still waiting for some conciliation in the form of an apology on your part regarding your “boy” epithet on another thread.
“You do realize I hope…” etc. etc.
AL has suggested you were about due for a timeout. I am beginning to agree.
Yes, it’s an interesting election.
Armed Liberal:
bq. _”For all the jet-setters who talk about the progressive wonders of Europe, try standing a well-spoken black man up as a prime ministerial candidate in England or France or Italy. Only in America – but oh, wait, we’re not really exceptional…”_
Or try standing him up as a candidate for Prime Minister in Saudi Arabia. Oh wait…
The best and most important things about America are things it has in common with some but not all other countries, like genuine democracy.
There are exceptional things about America, like the American attitude to and constitutional protection of firearms ownership. (Which by the way your boy Obama opposes when he thinks he can politically safely.) I like these things, or most of them.
But the really good stuff, like freedom of speech*, you can get anywhere people speak English, because the British tradition is good. The protection for freedom of speech that the Americans enjoy is more, stronger, better – but not unique.
I don’t mean any insult to America by saying it’s first among the best, that is the Anglosphere countries, but not a completely alien, superior entity.
* (Offer may not apply in Canada.)
Nortius Maximus old boy, are we really making “boy” that big of a deal? If so, fine. I just work here.
I hate to think what Narciso would say about typical Jewish humor.
#3 from Andrew J. Lazarus:
bq. _”The late Tom Lantos used to tell an “Only in America” story about rising from Holocaust refugee to Congress. Unfortunately, it isn’t so only in America.”_
Instead of “unfortunately” I would say “fortunately”.
Except that it isn’t only a matter of good fortune.
The success of democracy has had a lot to do with American arms, and there’s no better example of that than the fact that democracy prospers in Austria now. Without the Americans, Austria would have had neither elections nor Holocaust survivors to run in them.
#4 from Sepp:
bq. _”You do realize I hope that referring to a black person as “well-spoken” is considered condescending and potentially racist, do you not?”_
Then again, if we’re going to have aggressive race card playing and grievance-seeking over something as harmless at the straightforward praise “well-spoken”, why _not_ get snippy over “boy” too?
I’m tired of this.
bq. We’ve got two dysfunctional political parties, each one racing toward it’s own kind of oblivion…
The Dhimmicrats have long used identity politics to drive a useful wedge into the discourse. Useful for them. Now it may come back to bite them.
The GoP has deliberately spent it’s goodwill for folly and shamed themselves before the memory of Reagan.
The Constitution Party anyone? There has got to be a better alternative than the existing ones. We need real reform in Washington and soon.
Barrack H Obama is not exceptional. I wish that he were.
Religion – He joined a church that is one of the worst examples of Black Liberation Theology going as a ticket into southside Chitown politics. He got what he needed but when it became politically unhandy he threw them out with the dirty water. Or at least it seems. I predict he will be back there should he win the POTUS. And rubbing our collective noses in it. Anyone ready for reparations?
Foreign policy – He is a naif here. Is he or is he not going to give Ahmanutjob a reach around? I’m going to bet he is. He is of the type that thinks talk therapy works for psychopaths. ‘Cuz, you know, he IS so much smarter than the rest of us. And Israel is toast and they know it should he be the POTUS.
Economics – Again a naif. I think that the great depression will be a warm up compared to what he has planned. Gas will be $10/gallon because of taxes. Health care will be free, if you can stand the 2 year waiting lists. And if the big ‘THEY’ decide you deserve treatment should you not fit their lifestyle choice profiles. Think that cannot happen? It IS happening in GB and soon to be in Canaduh. We will not be able to drill our own energy fields because of the envirowhackos.
Energy – Green is clean. So is not being able to afford to drive. Better hope to g-d that you can telecommute. Get used to not being able to afford a hot shower, the water or to heat your house. We need a real energy ‘Manhattan’ project but we ain’t going to get it from BHO.
I could go on and on but my fingers are getting tired.
I am ready for those who will define ANY opposition to BHO as racism to crawl out from under their rocks by next Monday. Maybe sooner.
America is ready for a black to be POTUS, just not this black man, please.
Barack Obama’s candidature seems to be fueled by Black bigotry and white weakness.
The first can be seen in Trinity United Church of Christ, which has opened my eyes to some realities about Blacks and racial relations in America, and in the fact that about seven of eight voting Black support a man of their own race over a white with the same platform.
The white wimpyness can be seen in the supporting votes and money from the wealthy whites who have bankrolled and boosted Obama’s run. In doing what they’re doing, seeking racial absolution by being as pro-Black as possible, but being more flamboyant than usual about it, Father Pfleger has showed anybody who wants to look what that’s all about.
When you see whites being told – _with great love, with great love_ – that they must not expect Blacks to be color-blind and cease supporting someone who looks like them over whites, and that expecting that would be _typically white_ and a product of irredeemable blindness, and there is no push-back against that, it’s despicable. It’s pathetic.
One logical answer would be: then if Blacks stand up for their own with Black pride, then whites should stand up for their own with white pride. But no, that’s right out.
A better answer, the best answer, would be to insist militantly on color-blind fairness, and shame those who refuse to play by those rules. Don’t accept that lining up monolithically with your own race is OK because _it’s a Black thing. You wouldn’t understand._ Say that _in that case: fairness is a white thing. You wouldn’t understand._ Unless by no longer tolerating pervasive Black bigotry you show that you _do_ understand it, and it ceases to be a racial thing.
But no. One side only must be color-blind – while being told that as whites they are blind in general. And this is accepted, spinelessly.
Here we see the roots of America’s unique – really exceptional – city patterns, based on white flight.
If that’s the American exceptionalism on display in the candidacy of Barck Obama, it’s not something to be proud of.
Since Chris Rock is being bandied about… The standard account of the man’s life has it that he survived his early environment by being smart (including clever at ranking, the dozens, or whatever you want to call it– yo’mama insults, etc.).
He has made a point of criticizing certain people of his ethnicity and “community” for their willful ignorance. Approximately, from memory–“Helllll Noo, I ain’t reeeead noo BOOOK!!! KEEPIN’ IT REEEEEEALLLLL!”
And when he chooses, he is articulate and can be rhetorically compelling.
When those two expressions I just used become overused in his opinion, no doubt he’ll find a way to criticize them as being things you say about retarded people, or people with speech defects, or something.
In my view “well spoken” is not that different from “nice” or even “unthreatening”, along with carrying the meaning of “intelligible” — and I wonder if all three of those implications are not really what bugs Mr Rock.
Not that I can read Mr Rock’s mind. Which he definitely has one of.
There’s an easy exegesis here about the “badness” = respect thing, but I leave it as an exercise for the reader, along with the ramifications of Alica Keyes’s claims vice reality about thug music culture.
The Bushes and the Cheneys seem like nice families. I wouldn’t feel threatened by George W., or by Dick as long as he didn’t have a shotgun.
When was the last time you heard George W. Bush described as “well-spoken”?
I think there’s a strong argument that the President of the United States of America should be fluent in a language, preferably English.
George isn’t.
Barack is, and he’s far superior to any other candidate for President. This is a good reason to elect him.
An important part of the President’s job is to make the case for America. Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan performed this duty magnificently. That’s what it looks like if you do it right. I don’t think Barack Obama has any intention of doing the job Reagan did, but if one morning he wakes up and decides to he _can_, he has the ability. Hillary Clinton and John McCain have nothing like the same ability. They can hire good speech-writers, but they can’t deliver the speech the way Barack Obama can.
Verbal intelligence is a pure good. Certainly in the job Barack Obama is running for.
“I think there’s a strong argument that the President of the United States of America should be fluent in a language, preferably English.
George isn’t.
Barack is,”
Yes Obama was quite elequent when he told America last May
“In case you missed it, This week, this week there was a great tradgedy in Kansas, 10,000 people died”
I should be grateful to him because I did completely miss that.
I just re-viewed the video clip to ensure that was really what he said,
I keep having to do that, because even though I have heard it multiple times, I still find it hard to believe anyone would say something that inane or be believed by any sane person about anything after that.
Boy he sure is eloquent
“Barack is, and he’s far superior to any other candidate for President.”
Well, half true, anyway. He is fluent in English. There IS the little matter of lack of executive experience, and expressed policy preferences, though.
“The Constitution Party anyone? There has got to be a better alternative than the existing ones. We need real reform in Washington and soon.”
It’s quite natural to think, “The two major parties are broken, we need new ones.” Unfortunately, the two major parties don’t WANT us to have new ones, and have written that preference into our campaign laws. Today, third parties are just a mechanism for harmlessly wasting the energy of people who want reform. I don’t see that changing any time soon, short of the Supreme court getting good and sick of the parties granting themselves special legal status. Unlikely given Republican nominees, and laughably unlikely give Democratic nominees.
No, the terrifying truth is that the parties are broken AND they’re our only hope.
_”Barack is, and he’s far superior to any other candidate for President. This is a good reason to elect him.”_
Have our standards for a president dropped or is it me? Job requirements- ability to speak the native tongue. Enough sense of direction not to get lost in the Rose Garden. Proficient in use of safety scissors.
By that rationale we should elect Jerry Falwell.
bq. Then again, if we’re going to have aggressive race card playing and grievance-seeking over something as harmless at the straightforward praise “well-spoken”, why not get snippy over “boy” too?
I think you’re a bit confused, David, and are directing your ire precisely 180 degrees off target.
I have no idea whether celebrim is black, white, green, or even a male. However, I do have ample evidence that they are immature, petulant and self-centered (not to mention verbose and poor at spelling). Thus, my “boy” comment can only be reasonably taken as a pejorative about maturity levels, but not race or gender.
On the other hand, AL is full aware of Obama’s race. And I’d be flabbergasted if he wasn’t aware that this type of comment is considered condescending by many, not just Chris Rock, although he certainly puts a humorous spin on it.
If he isn’t, then it does speak to a certain constraint on his social awareness, does it not?
I will note that I actually chose not to point out the hypocrisy in the first post because I thought it was sorta silly to rub his face in it, but since you raised the issue…
bq. I’m tired of this.
As am I.
[Good news, Sepp. Your wish has been granted! Take a break until at least June 21st. –NM]
bq. Barack Obama’s candidature seems to be fueled by Black bigotry and white weakness.
Here we go. David, I’m beginning to believe you’re a racist, specifically the type who feels angry or affronted that others in society find your views offensive, ignorant and corrosive. Pity the poor White Bigot who feels that his “Right” to spew bigotry in public has been infringed!
If there is even a grain of truth in your belief, then it certainly cannot possibly account for the widespread support Obama has received, and will receive, that cuts across may racial and social boundaries.
There might be some people out there who support him that do fall under these categories, but they must be an insignificant number to be sure.
A drop or two in the tank perhaps. Call it “fueled” if you want, but even a moments thought on this matter (which is certainly more that you seem to have given it) reveals its utter absurdity.
[Sepp, the absurdity here is that you’re the (only?) one (in your eyes) who’s permitted to be patronizing to other contributors here. Take a break for two weeks to think about that. –NM]
My least favorite bit of eloquence from Obama’s “victory” speech:
I think Obama is being less than honest here; he certainly sees a good option for himself. He can be the man who ended the Iraq genocide, that lasted 10,000 years, killed a hundred billion innocent people, and cost a kerjillion-gazillion dollars. He can be the man that delivered peace-bragging rights to the New-New Left.
That’s all good for him, and easy, too. Much more attractive than a determination not to turn our backs on Iraq the way we did on the Republic of Vietnam, when there is far less justification.
Sepp: you’re trolling, and I’m done feeding the troll. This, trolling, is apparently your contribution to this site, and I see no need for more of it.
Armed Liberal: I was wrong to take a contrary view on “boy” in the context of Sepp. I think it’s a harmless word in itself, but in this case it _was_ meant as a pejorative, and the context was that Sepp is a troll, so in context you were right to call him on it.
_Oh, and did I mention that a black man was nominated for the Presidency?_
And if I am not mistaken, he would be the first President in over a hundred years that was not a member of any church.
#17 from Mark Buehner:
Too late – unless you mean Zombie Jerry Falwell? And then proficiency in the use of safety scissors would be in question.
OK, Sepp. Given the circumstances, take a break here through June 20th.
As the WoC “comments policy”:http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/003367.php puts it, “If dat bat comes down, you’re outta da game.”
“AL asked you for an apology or to take a break.”:http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/what_he_said_2.php#c43 You’ve delivered a justification, and done so in the “wrong” thread.
See you after June 20th. Any post by you before that time will be deleted out of hand.
If you wish to discuss or appeal this matter offlist, you’ll find email links for Joe, AL, or the other Marshals, including me, over in the right hand margin.
To whom it may concern: Please respect this mandate by not responding to Sepp til then — it just leaves more to be deleted. Thank you.
I think America is ready for its first zombie president. We need something to fight the robots.
#22 from PD Shaw: Re: “Oh, and did I mention that a black man was nominated for the Presidency?”
I think this is like John McCain’s views on illegal immigration and “comprehensive” reform: when he shifted to saying “enforcement first” nobody on the right called him a flip-flopper, because nobody thought he had really changed his mind.
Barack Obama hasn’t really quit Trinity United Church of Christ. Like John McCain, he just said what he had to say during an election. As Jeremiah Wright told us, Barack Obama is merely being a politician, doing what politicians do.
#25 from Mark Buehner:
Then America should be ready for John McCain.
And considering his opposition to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, who was all about less personnel more electronics in the Army, I’d say John is off to a good start as a robot-opposer.
I think the political parties need new mascots. Donkies and elephants are old news. Robot and zombie, now that will get the kids involved.
Most people don’t know we spend more money on aircraft carriers than we do on plasma rifles and monitoring weird government chemicals dumped in graveyards.
Re: #16 from Brett Bellmore:
I think you are dead right on both counts. Under the circumstances, third parties are a non-starter and only waste the energy of people who who want real reform; and Barack Obama’s lack of executive experience and his expressed policy experiences count against him.
(I only meant that he was to superior to any other candidate for American President this year in his eloquence, which is a good reason to vote for him. I did not mean to rule out all other tests of fitness for office.)
#28 Mark Buehner: …and remember that the ADA requirements for properly accommodating zombies are staggering, too. So to speak.
Aside: Those bigots at the mall last week boarded up the only Z-accessible bathroom! With themselves inside, of course. Bastards.
#28 from Mark Buehner:
Based on what I’ve seen lately in toy stores, kids this year are going more for dinosaurs. Another argument for John McCain!
I’m not sure that it’s really a “flip-flop†or that McCain has changed his views on what he thinks needs to be done in the area of immigration reform – he’s just changed his tactics.
From what I can tell, McCain offered what he thought was a comprehensive set of reforms to deal with the issue of immigration (not just illegal immigration which is the part that dominates the debate) which includes additional enforcement. Opponents didn’t think it went far enough on the issue of enforcement or were worried that it would amount to a repeat of the 1987 immigration reform bill and they would wind up with a guest worker program with only token efforts made at enforcement.
McCain apparently still believes that we ultimately need a comprehensive solution to immigration but that the political climate is such that you cannot deal with all of the aspects simultaneously so he’s shifted tactics to push for the enforcement provisions first and separately and when we’ve achieved a consensus that the borders are secure and/or that illegal immigration levels have been brought down to a more manageable level, then hopefully the political climate will be such that we deal with it in a more comprehensive fashion.
But I suppose that’s the sort of thing you get from a presidential candidate who brings a lifetime of experience to the job rather than just a speech he gave in 2002. 😉
Or we could combine the best of both worlds and have the GOP mascot be a Dinobot. Just in time for Transformers 2 next year!!
In which case the Democrats can have zombies as their mascot and McCain can pick Bruce Campbell as his running mate . . .
Its not bigotry to insist that zombies adhere strictly to Article II of the Constitution. A zombie is not “a natural born Citizen,” they are supernaturally born. Robots aren’t even born at all. It may be faddish today to label the Founders as monsterphobes, but if people really want zombies or terminators to be President, they should stop the name-calling and amend the Constitution.
#34 from PD Shaw:
bq. _”Its not bigotry to insist that zombies adhere strictly to Article II of the Constitution. A zombie is not “a natural born Citizen,” they are supernaturally born. Robots aren’t even born at all. It may be faddish today to label the Founders as monsterphobes, but if people really want zombies or terminators to be President, they should stop the name-calling and amend the Constitution.”_
But there’s a problem here, because zombies were naturally born, once, it’s just that later they were unnaturally – or supernaturally – Born Again. Which takes us to their suitability as a symbol for some elements in the Republican Party – and to Zombie Jerry Falwell, which is where we came in.
With their anti-religious bias, Democrats are going to be doubly peeved if brain-eating Born Again Republican Zombies are deemed eligible for the highest executive office, but their robotic representatives, such as HRC-101 (she’ll be back!) are barred.
You need comprehensive reform on this. A package deal.
It’s often been suggested that Arnold Schwarzenegger should get the Constitution amended so he can run for American President despite his origin outside the United States of America. There is photographic proof, widely available on the Internet, that Mr. Schwarzenegger is a terminator. So the same reform of the “natural born” limitation must remove both barriers to his occupying the Oval Office, thus clearing the way for Demo-bots to rule.
As a strong pro-lifer, and a fan of the movie _The Island_ (2005), I think this is the right time to address the issue of clones. Medical science _is_ going to bring us (or in secret, has it already brought us?) human beings who were never “natural born”. The Vatican is already on board with their rights, instead objecting to cloning on a variety of grounds but mainly on the suspicion that the rights of clones will be abused, and that clones will be created to conform to an agenda with some form of abuse to their rights already built into the policy. So the Catholic Right should be fine with fixing this.
Lincoln Six Echo, Jordan Two Delta: _Run!!_
On reflection, can we please choose something other than loaded expressions like “the z-word”, here?
Revenant-Americans is the approved term, I think.
I don’t see this election as a contest for the following reasons.
1. The energizing of the Republican Party that started with Reagan has spent itself.
2. The G.W. Bush Administration effectively killed it off by adopting an idiotic Neo-con Foreign Policy view and trying to dress it up as a direct descendant of Reagan’s.
3. It replaced the philosophy of conservatism with divisiveness and political pandering. The Contract with America and the clear delineation of the conservative line degenerated into the the name calling political tactics of Karl Rove.
4. A no big Government and low spending stance was turned on its head.
5. This led to a choice of candidates that resembled the menageries that the Democrats were wont to put up over the past 20 years. None of these candidates had the intellectual depth of a common puddle.
6. This led to the nomination, out of hunger I might add, of John McCain.
7. Look at McCain with a clear eye and in absence of the competition.
a. He appears to be completely confused.
b. He has flip-flopped on every major issue and most of the minor ones.
c. The speech he gave recently in N.O. was shocking. The worst political speech by a presidential nominee that I have every heard. He not only allowed his opponent to define the race, he spent half of the speech denigrating the Republicans. I am not alone in that opinion. The speech was universally panned on the right.
d. Pat Buchanan, of all people, is terrified of a McCain Presidency because he feels that McCain is out of control and is consumed by a seething irrational and at times uncontrollable anger.
If this disastrous performance by the presumptive candidate continues, I think we will see movement to deny McCain the nomination, unless the Republicans want to outstrip the Democrats in self destructive behavior, which, until this election, I thought was an impossibility. A McCain led party is facing a very deep and widespread disaster in the fall.
I remember telling liberal friends in NY that I thought Reagan would win the presidency in 1978 and they laughed at me. I look at Obama and the present state of the Republican Party and I don’t think an Obama landslide is a laughing matter.