They’re smarter than we think.
Bigwig at Silflay Hraka actually presents a damn good idea that could make a difference in the Middle East.
According to best estimates, there are just over 5 million Palestinians in Israel and the occupied territories. There are maybe 5 million more scattered throughout the Middle East. LetÂ’s start with the ones in the occupied territories and let them emigrate; in small numbers at first, then more, then hundreds of thousands a year. Let them come to America. And in exchange, they give up the Right of Return for themselves and all their progeny, forever.
Maybe it’s the aftereffect of too much raw honey, but I’m suddenly hopeful. This idea may not work, but if Bigwig can come up with this, there are other ideas that get us out of the box we’re in.
Open the doors…
Date: 08/03/2002 00:00:00 AM
I’ve never said that poverty was the cause; the sick culture, combined with intractible facts of history are the cause.I agree that they won’t suddenly get subscriotions to National Review when they move here, but you’ll note that there’s a dearth of Americans moving back to Palestine and blowing people up. There’s a reason for that…A.L.
Date: 08/03/2002 00:00:00 AM
My point is not that a Palestinian Diaspora will necessarily result in homicide bombings in the United States, but that bringing Palestinians here will not “reform” them.Many are here now and hold views just as bad as the “average middle-class Palestinian” in the Middle East, who takes his infant to the equivalent of the KMart Photo Center, to be snapped wearing a gunbelt. Location or “being given a decent life” does not change a person’s basic beliefs. Read the following very slowly and repeat it to yourself several times, so that it sinks in: Poverty is NOT the motivating factor in the Palestianian uprising.The idea that living in a pink house and having plenty of cash and DVDs rather than living in a hovel will transform anyone into some kin of Republican is not only laughable, but profoundly perverse. The reason is that that idea is based on Marx’s notion that the tools of production condition one’s thinking rather than vice-versa. The Palestinians who are here now and who are peaceful, did not arrive full of hatred for the United States and then become “reformed”; those of them who came here did so precisely because they didn’t need to be reformed. The reason they changed their material condition and location was because of their ideas – versus a new location and material condition being thrust upon them and, magically, changing their ideas.The ones who want to be here for the right reasons *already are here*; to the extent that any Palestinian remains in the Middle East more or less voluntarily, he or she is irredeemable.Giving someone (a chance at) a nice American house, a nice neighborhood school, wads of cash, a professional career, and all the showgirls boobs he can gawk at, does not transform him into an American patriot. Just ask Mohammed Atta … oh, wait, you can’t.
Date: 08/03/2002 00:00:00 AM
I’ve addressed a lot of the comments here.
Date: 08/02/2002 00:00:00 AM
In order:Phil (where’s Jerry’s post, anyway?) – it is America’s problem. Go to downtown Manhattan and take a look. I’m predicting that it’s only going to be more our problem the worse it gets.Rob: My point is to break up Palestinian culture. I want to destroy it, and I think this is one tool that could do it. I’m concerned about a “fifth column” here in the U.S., but we have that problem today, and we’ll have it for the forseeable future. Offering hope is a tool (one of several) I want to use to break the culture that exists down.(to be continued…)
Date: 08/02/2002 00:00:00 AM
Totally absurd. This issue has already been settled by the ultima ratio regni. Individual Palestinians may accept the settlement or not. Israel may defend itself as circumstances require.
Date: 08/02/2002 00:00:00 AM
One of the many bad assumptions behind Hraka’s proposal is that the Palistinian trouble is “over there” and that America is a near-monolith of classical liberalism – or at least of pro-Israel sentiment. The counter-evidence is phenomenal.There are ardent pro-Palistinian communities in the United States. There are ardent Pali activists, particularly associated with college campuses. Just today (8/2/02) young smiling Sherri Muzher, self-decribed an “an American of Palistinian descent” had an editorial in USA TODAY. A native of Michigan, she upheld the Palis cause, referring to the beginning of the “Palestinian freedom uprising” “on Sept. 28, 2000.” “For many Americans, the occupied Palestinian territories are just some place seen on a TV set.[…] But if you’re of Palestinian descent, the dead are your people, maybe even members of your family or your friends’ families. To us, the dead ? more than 1,700 murdered Palestinians ? have names, unique personalities, dreams.[…] We are tired of seeing our people killed[….]”Maybe the Palestinian refugees so eagerly embraced by Hraka could become Muzher’s neighbors?That example is at random; consider the Pal. living in the Northeast who was interviewed by NPR a couple months ago, snarling that he supported the suicide bombers and would be proud if his own son were a bomber. Or consider the “multiculturalists” here.Think of the numerous garden-variety pro-Palistinian people, from Libertarians to lefties, whom you run into in any political chat group (if you don’t, then get out more!). Mr. Weir is a useful idiot – er, example – in this regard.Someone said Hraka’s proposal would mean a metastasis of the cancer. But the cancer has already metastasized to America. Hraka’s proposal raises the question only of whether we should drink Drano on top of it.Posted by David Rowlett at August 2, 2002 06:53 PM Re.: the USA TODAY reference. Sherri Muzher is the editorialist to whom I referred. Maybe she and the refugees could be neighbors?Here is the link (warning: if you want to have a happy Friday night, don’t read it now):http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/2002-08-02-muzher-mideast_x.htm
Date: 08/02/2002 00:00:00 AM
This is one of the worst ideas that I have ever heard. First, how will they give up the right to return? If the PA gives it up, that would make the plan unnecessary, which means it would have to be on an individual basis. What would you have them do, sign a contract? And what is all this about monitoring them and treating them as parolees? Are we going to use ankle bracelets? How do you expect the Palestinians to embrace American values when the are monitored and aren’t allowed to choose where they live? Even if there were no restrictions, it would be a bad idea. Immigration isn’t some magic cure all. They might embrace American ideals, but they are more likely to act as a fifth column. Do you honestly believe that the State Dept. will do a good job of keeping the bad apples out?
Date: 08/02/2002 00:00:00 AM
This has to be one of the worst ideas I’ve seen recently, and I’ve been reading warblogger watch for kicks. So the Palestinians claim to be pissed off because the Jews took their land… Islamofascists hate America because of our perceived support for Israel. The fundamentalist Muslims that immigrate to Europe have been causing huge headaches for the Europeans…The Palestinians dance in the streets in large numbers when Americans die…Oh, I know, lets move all the Palestinians out of the land they want and into the land of the supporters of their oppressors. This baffles me. Ideally we could just get the hell out of that place, develop new sources of energy and let them sort their problems out. Are we going to take the Islamic militants out of Kashmir too and move them to New Jersey? How about the Chechnyans? Can we relocate them to Florida?
Date: 08/02/2002 00:00:00 AM
Nice snide comments about Oklahoma by Mr. Bob Weir. Why not New York, or the somewhere in the Northeast? Only proving the point of the name of my little blog.
Date: 08/02/2002 00:00:00 AM
Ship the Palis to the unpopulated areas of the middle east. There’s plenty.Ship the Jews west. Settle them in Baja California, or Nebraska, Arizona or Arkansas.Dismantle the Dome of the Rock brick by brick (like they did with London Bridge) and ship it to Arabia. Same with the Western Wall.Then sew the entire region with Strontium 90.
Date: 08/02/2002 00:00:00 AM
Maiking Israel’s problem into America’s problem is awfully generous. If this is somebody’s idea of “an idea” that might “get us out of the box”…I tremble for the future.
Date: 08/02/2002 00:00:00 AM
Um, why would we want to allow hundreds of thousands of people who hate the US and think that the murder of Americans is cause for celebration into our country?When we allow immigrants in, we import our future rulers. Does the PA, or indeed the entire history of the West Bank, give you much faith in Palestinian culture’s present ability to rule itself? (Note to people who can’t read: this is not a racial argument. It is cultural. Americanized immigrants of ALL races do a fine job of participating in our republic, but it is doubtful that such huge groups of Palestinians–who grew up on a diet of anti-Jew, anti-US hatred–could be successfuly Americanized.)Let Europe take ’em, they seem to think highly of them.
Date: 08/02/2002 00:00:00 AM
I thought about that, but it’s not nearly as attractive a choice for the Israelis as it is the Palestinians, even though the infusion of that many educated, resourceful jews would do us nothing but good. Also, we only need a percentage of the Palestinians to come for it to work. I’m willing to bet that percentage is a small one, because as soon as they start leaving the rule of the PA en masse, the PA will collapse, just like the East German Communists. We’d have to get all the Israelis, because the ones left would be slaughtered.
Date: 08/02/2002 00:00:00 AM
Yup, Bob, it’s those pesky Jews again…personally, I think the history is a little murkier than that, but as Stan Fish says, “who knows?”A.L.
Date: 08/02/2002 00:00:00 AM
It would be simpler and more intelligent to make that offer to the Israelis. After all, they were the ones moving in on the Palestinial homeland, organizing the Irgun and Stern Gang to terrorise, threaten, intimidate, and ethnically cleanse the Palestinians. Offer the Isrealis some reservation in Arizona or Oklahoma, tell them it’s their sacred homeland and everything will be honky-dory.